Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 3

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request

Kate Harris was spectacular.

Very high risk strategy, she seems to have decided that LGBA can't plausibly deny having called Mermaids monsters and the like, so she's going with, "So what? They are monsters. They have ruined people's lives. This is a huge medical scandal and people will go to prison for this."

This is what was used in a high profile abuse case as well , but if it is a legal acceptance then how in earth do you prosecute for perjury ? I am struggling to understand this .

Yes it was quite refreshing how straight forward she was being. Out of interest why would this be high risk? At least if they win they'll know they can carry on as they are.

I agree . It must be a very daunting thing to do and she seemed to hold her own even after being quite rightly upset at one point .

I think as she was confirming their hostile stance to MM. Which is obvious, but with good reason.

The evidence is not going to be finished by 1pm is it. I think they will have to reschedule.

It's high risk because Mermaids' claim is based on the assertion that LGB Alliance has no actual charitable objectives and only exists to promote an anti-trans narrative. Mermaids' standing, or legitimacy, to bring the claim is based on the fact that they say they risk losing funding as a result of LGB Alliance's efforts to attack and undermine them.

LGB Alliance have just effectively admitted in court that they have attacked and undermined Mermaids, and that their objective in doing so was to encourage Mermaids to stop doing what they are doing and listen to medical experts before more children are harmed.

So that forces LGB Alliance to adopt a position where they say, "Yes, we have attacked Mermaids, but only within the context of advancing our own charitable objectives, which are to protect same sex attracted people, particularly children."

Exactly .

Reallly sad about David Bridel of Boys Magazine. Now unemployed because of a tweet

All of this could be turned straight around.

Is MM's beliefs hostile to the LGBA? Definitely

Is the insistance that female homosexuals should do hetero sex to protect a male person's gender identity hostile and offensive to female homosexuals? Definitely.

It is the attempt to push the idea of the One True Faith: that the trans ideology is the truth and nothing but the truth and anyone countering this is lying (which involves denying law and reality), or acting out of 'hate', and it really is nothing but a demand of suppression on ground of heresy.

And fuck off with that, it's unacceptable. Entirely unacceptable.

How anyone at this point can listen to this and not think its MM who are being hostile? Its insanity on crack.

Basically this.

She's essentially admitting that LGB Alliance did exactly what Mermaids say they did, but claiming that LGB Alliance's actions can be reasonably justified because of the harm being done to children.

However those deep soaked in the ideology would say exactly that and a lot worse to trans people who dare voice life experiences or view of their identity differently than the orthodoxy of the political lobby.

The most vile, vicious things I've ever seen said on MN in over a decade were ones addressed on a thread by a TRA to a trans person. It was shocking.

Its insanity on crack.

This describes the last five years, up is down, black is white. It is totally mind bending.

One thing that worries me about the schedule is that if the hearing isn't concluded this week, and there's an extra bit in a few months' time, this might mean that some journalists might decide not to write up an article on a part-finished hearing and once it's time for the extra bit it will then be old news.

It's really frustrating that this might not finish on time. I wonder how long they expect to cross examine this witness for.

Yes EG is getting it out there how much of LGBA efforts have had to be diverted from charitable works to preparing for this case.

What are they planning on doing within the extra 3 days?

I hope the media have a look at the remark about the lottery regretting funding MMs. Assuming it's accurate, which I can well imagine it is.

fuck sake November

MG: Assuming the hearing isn't concluded this week, there are 2 3-day windows, 7-9 Nov, 14-16 Nov where counsel would be available, but that depends on if the tribunal would be available.

November?! Jesus fuck on a bike.

Bravo, Kate.

I think getting that statement out in the open is worth the risk.

I blame JN for wasting time with his question-avoidant speeches

So that forces LGB Alliance to adopt a position where they say, "Yes, we have attacked Mermaids, but only within the context of advancing our own charitable objectives, which are to protect same sex attracted people, particularly children."

Yes I think that's the crux of it.

Presumably questions can now be asked about the charitable aim of MM which has proven itself to be both homophobic and a safeguarding risk given the open acceptance that they have not bothered to read the Cass report and refer families to practitioners who have been struck off.

I can't see MM coming out this well.

I think she's done a blinding job calling a spade a spade.

I hope now, as someone mentioned upthread that the fact that other LGB fundraising objectives have been deliberately sabotaged by MM and the other transactivist charities.

That is pointing at the emperor and saying he is naked.

That's what we all need to do.

Its part of the never ending using legal process as a stick to beat heretics with. Escalate the costs and bankrupt them, drag it all out forever by ceaseless burbling..... this ideology seems to come with zero ethics or class.