Has MN become just another platform that silences women?

[Sparklybutold]

www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2022/05/mumsnets-founder-justine-roberts-it-is-a-place-where-women-can-speak-the-truth

What are your thoughts? Interesting piece above but my experience using MN has seen threads being deleted if women actually talk about there experiences within the real world. It feels that ‘hate speech’ has become muddled with the political agenda to silence women who dare to speak there truth.

I think there is a lot of open discussion on here.

Well yes, not just women though, anything that doesn't align with the mainstream, like most of the Internet.

Yes, women are silenced and forced to co operate with the One True Faith to a large extent in discussions, however by the strong modding Justine has enabled a conversation to go on here that hasn't been had by women anywhere else. It's had a price for MNHQ, I appreciate very much the difficult line they walk here and I suspect we have no idea of the mess they soak up in the background from those who think women shouldn't be allowed to talk at all.

I suspect we have no idea of the mess they soak up in the background from those who think women shouldn't be allowed to talk at all.

I agree. And it would be surprising if a substantial part of why people (men?) push an anti-MN agenda isn't because of the help provided to women, to leave abusive relationships. The fact this board exists doubtless provides a convenient cover for MRAs to attempt to get it shut down. I'm very glad to read that Justine hasn't been persuaded to sell.

Be grateful for what we have.

Despite the deletions, I'm very aware that this is a place where women are permitted to speak (carefully) about certain issues and am personally very grateful to MNHQ for taking this stance on freedom of speech. Just look at what happens in the NHS, universities, schools and the law with untruths and fantasies being presented as reality and dissent being brutally sanctioned.

Mumsnet is not the problem - it's actually part of the solution.

I hate the ‘rules’ (especially as they are rarely explicit) but having seen what’s been happening to Null and KiwiFarms, I don’t doubt that MNHQ are doing their best to negotiate a tricky line of both keeping the lights on and allowing this topic to be discussed.

The internet has become a shitty, authoritarian netherworld where it’s more socially acceptable to tell a feminist to ‘die in a grease fire’ than it is to say ‘men aren’t women tho’.

MN is a battered fortress in the war for reality.

It does seem odd when we cannot use a description such as 'trans identified male', or say 'stunning and brave', but if it wan't for Mumsnet where would we discuss these things?

When I first began to realise what was going on (Anarchist book fair incident) I found it hard to discover any background information at all. It was only when I got to mumsnet that I realised these things had been happening for some time. There must be many others like me.

I do get angry with the modding (quite often).
When I see threads about periods (and men's inability to have them) being removed (there was a spate of this a few months ago) or certain phrases being banned, or our inability to talk transparently about certain paraphilias known in men, I DO get angry.
I'm grateful that MN exists because I otherwise wouldn't be so aware of what's happening in this area, but I do think the censorship is sometimes very questionable. Saying "not in the spirit" has become far too easy IMO.

No, women aren't silenced here. We may be moderated more than we'd wish, but otoh the rank, abusive misogyny and threats to women (for GC and other issues) which abound on certain other platforms isn't tolerated here either.

MN is an invaluable asset to women for many reasons. Yes, we are limited in what we can say, but we can still at least ask questions and make connections.

'Mumsnet’s Sex and Gender board looks a lot like an echo chamber: occasionally a user will challenge the prevailing narrative that trans rights threaten women’s sex-based rights, but they are quickly shut down.'

If anyone out there wants to come and discuss this from an alternative point of view, please, please do so! Just don't come in an expect automatic agreement or fawning abeisance, because we don't do that. Bring your logic, evidence and willingness to question and be asked questions. That's all.

I agree. The 'hate speech' addition is reflective of that. I don't doubt however, that MNHQ have to walk a tightrope between what is 'tolerated' speech and what is 'anti-tolerated' speech.

100% this.

If anyone out there wants to come and discuss this from an alternative point of view, please, please do so! Just don't come in an expect automatic agreement or fawning abeisance, because we don't do that. Bring your logic, evidence and willingness to question and be asked questions. That's all.

I would love it if this was the case, but I'm definitely someone who doesn't feel comfortable offering my opinion on this part of Mumsnet.
Unfortunately, the many previous times I've attempted to join a discussion, I've been met with quite a bit of unpleasantness that has led me to just leave the conversation. I think that people on this board are so passionate and knowledgable about their beliefs, opinions etc, and whilst that's fantastic for them, I don't think it leaves much/any space for people like me with differing opinions, which I do find a pity.

Some really interesting perspectives. Thank you.

I don't think MN silences women. I think that the site allows robust discussion within defined limits.
These limits are more generous than on many other platforms and more constrained than others!
Although there are men posters, the vast majority are women and the vibe is female. I think posters can - in the main - agree to differ. It would be a very dull place if we all agreed..

I think the issue is not that people are "quickly shut down" (as the article rather boldly states) but that they're often met with facts. That can include technical points about the law. Or statistics on crime, or the critical analysis of statistics that are flung around uncritically elsewhere.

The question is - why don't other platforms allow for such discussions and why is it left to MN, to provide a space for those discussions to happen?

I think they are trying to walk a line and sometimes they don't quite get it right.

But overall I think they do pretty well.

Probably the stuff that puts me off the most is stuff like not being able to talk about grooming. OTOH I think maybe they are wise to be careful of too much talk of specific individuals, that can easily turn into a cess-pit.

I've been here a long time and used to be regularly called transphobic (on here and irl) for saying biology is important. I think the willingness to host discussions about the definition of "woman" and transgender politics is a very important facet of the site. But unfortunately because its one of the only places on the Internet where this can be discussed it's attracted a lot of posters to the "Sex and Gender" board that are not feminist but are wanting to discuss transgender politics.
As a result some of the amazing feminism and feminist theory that used to be on here is much harder to find or not discussed at all.
I stay away from sex and gender now because it's very dogmatic and I'm fed up of fighting with some of the more right wing posters who have very unfeminist view points.
So I don't even have a very "alternative view" (I believe that it's perfectly acceptable to treat transwomen as women socially and legally, whilst retaining an exemption where women are vulnerable on the basis of biology). But I'm not going to discuss it on S&G and if I was a fully onboard TWAW then there's not a cat in hells chance I'd post on there. I think that paragraph was fairly accurate

Let’s be grateful that we have mumsnet. It might not be prefect, I think they are doing good job in the circumstances and I don’t want women to lose this space.

You might.

others would say that’s a very disrespectful thing to say - there is absolutely no comparison between genocide of millions of Jewish people and women discussing their own rights within the law.

it’s disgustingly flippant of you to make such a silly comparison.

but I’m a free speech advocate so I defend your right to make a complete show of yourself online.

But I'm not going to discuss it on S&G and if I was a fully onboard TWAW then there's not a cat in hells chance I'd post on there.

*Looks around, confused

*whispers

’ Adam this thread is on the S&G board and you are posting on it’

hopefully not such a terrible experience you won’t consider it again in the future!

If someone doesn't want to post on S&G for whatever reason, there's a whole other board available. As many of us predicted, it seems to be underused.