Has MN become just another platform that silences women?

[Sparklybutold]

www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2022/05/mumsnets-founder-justine-roberts-it-is-a-place-where-women-can-speak-the-truth

What are your thoughts? Interesting piece above but my experience using MN has seen threads being deleted if women actually talk about there experiences within the real world. It feels that ‘hate speech’ has become muddled with the political agenda to silence women who dare to speak there truth.

But how much further do you expect Mumsnet to go? They're a business first and foremost, and it's hard to get advertisers if you're known to allow people to post hate speech, that's why they moderate so effectively.

I know 😂
I read the board but I wouldn't discuss my perspective as I've tried before and the discussion gets very rigid....

I can only imagine that a huge number of people have lurked & listened on this moderated board & realised that there are serious issues with trans ideology and its impact on women and children.
There are frequently useful flouncy links to other forums 'Im off to spinster' etc if people feel too constrained here, which lurkers etc are also free to follow.

MN is far from perfect but I think does a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to introducing new people to gender critical certanties beliefs.

MN is heavily moderated but because it's not so moderated as other sites, we think ourselves fortunate. I have had posts deleted for using what MN admits are correct biological or medical terms, or for refusing to validate a damaged person's self-image. And it's not just the feminism threads, it's also on black MN etc. One has to very carefully police one's language for fear of deletion. Freedom of speech certainly does not exist here.

I get you.

hopefully us mumsnet posters will be able to relax a bit as the various court cases confirm wind their way towards clarification that single sex means SEX.

the whole thing has taken up a lot of time and energy but the chink of light is there and when there is less at stake, perhaps we’ll find ourselves less ready to draw (metaphorical! Obvs!) swords at a moments notice.

Yes, indeed. A whole special board for discussing all the other feminist issues without any of the 'unpleasantness' allowed on it.

If what were the case?

Think my fingers typed faster than my brain could speak there, sorry. I mean that I wish it were the case that most people on this board did want to hear another opinion/point of view without things getting nasty.

Ah, I see. Well, I guess disagreement and 'robust' disagreement is kind of par for the course, and this is a busy board with lots of different visitors, but I think most posters on here are open to discussion and it's generally fairly polite as far as anonymous internet boards go ... at least, I find it less intimidating than some other boards!

Unfortunately, the experiences that I'm talking about aren't the "robust" disagreements, etc, but rather the patronising/unpleasant/rude/aggressive interactions, often mostly seen when someone does disagree with the norm or asks a question that is deemed "stupid".

I suspect that’s mostly due to text/anon communications and we’d all rub along fine if we were in a pub/on a picnic/in a coffee shop.

I miss facial expressions!

Exactly what I was trying to say

For example, if one posts that their opinion is TW could be treated as women legally in work situations (which is in fact the law) then rather than discuss how far those situations extend or how to define transition, its just goes immediately to "woman = adult human female, no exceptions"
Makes it very hard to have a discussion

That is quite new since the decision to put all trans threads into feminism and an influx of posters from elsewhere on the web to FWR (i think when they shut down gender critical reddit). Prior to that it was possible to have more nuanced discussions.

its just goes immediately to "woman = adult human female, no exceptions" Makes it very hard to have a discussion

Well personally I don't think scientific fact is a bad boundary for discussion.

There are a lot of intelligent women on here who believe that the realities of biological sex are important. They don't tolerate the bullshit, the gaslighting or the double speak. Beyond that, yes of course it's possible to have a discussion.

For example, if one posts that their opinion is TW could be treated as women legally in work situations (which is in fact the law) then rather than discuss how far those situations extend or how to define transition, its just goes immediately to "woman = adult human female, no exceptions"
Makes it very hard to have a discussion

Maybe you are misunderstanding the position of many women - we don't want to negotiate when we can and cannot be independent and separate from men. We are asserting that we are.

Last 2 posts prove my point and are why I don't post much any more.

The article said:
"'Mumsnet’s Sex and Gender board looks a lot like an echo chamber: occasionally a user will challenge the prevailing narrative that trans rights threaten women’s sex-based rights, but they are quickly shut down.'"

I'm not even challenging the prevailing narrative - I think womens sex based rights are paramount. I also think there are various scenarios where sex isn't relevant and in those situations I'm happy to treat trans women as women. Using preferred pronouns for a transwoman at work, for example.

If I can't state my position on here as a GC feminist, because I'm not GC enough, there's no way more moderate people will post. So it becomes really polarised and unhelpful.

I've noticed things feel much less friendly to quite a few groups, women included. I also feel more people dislike what was once the 'norm.' And instead of equality, we are moving towards more of a sort of vengefulness. It seems like a lot of different groups vying for a slice of power, but no real equality. That's been my experience.

This.
It's not great but it's a start.

I also think there are various scenarios where sex isn't relevant and in those situations I'm happy to treat trans women as women. Using preferred pronouns for a transwoman at work, for example.

But in any scenario where sex isn't relevant, you're not "treating anyone as women" (or men), just as people. Using preferred pronouns for a colleague is on a par with using their preferred title or name - just politeness. And the flip side of that is that, just as you wouldn't expect a colleague to take great umbrage if you make a genuine mistake with pronouncing their name, you wouldn't expect anyone to get bent out of shape about pronoun lapses.

I don't think my position is very complicated and I expect many women on here have a similar take.

No policies or laws based on lies.

You can't change sex and there are all kinds of problematic consequences to pretending you can. There are a range of circumstances where biological sex trumps whatever your understanding of gender is. Sex segregated spaces, sport, sexual partners, healthcare.

Outside of that, live how you like, I couldn't give a flying.

If I can't state my position on here as a GC feminist, because I'm not GC enough, there's no way more moderate people will post. So it becomes really polarised and unhelpful.

You can and are stating your position.

But others are also saying why that position doesn't work for them. Why preferred pronouns are not just a courtesy if using them obscures other issues.

Using preferred pronouns for a transwoman at work, for example

Thats certainly up for discussion on here, I'm not sure why you think it isn't

I also think there are various scenarios where sex isn't relevant

Absolutely agree. But as Errol says, if sex isn't relevant then you aren't treating someone 'as a woman', are you? Just as a person.

I agree.

Nope. Mumsnet has certainly been a tremendous public magnifying glass exposing the general bullshit the female sex are up against on a daily basis. Whether it is F4J or wokery fuckery or red pill nutballs, all have tried, in every way they can think of, to bring Justine down and silence women. They have failed and exposed their own silliness in the process so far from silencing women, Mumsnet has helped show the world what depths men will sink to in the pursuit of silencing women. Thank you Justine and MNHQ.