Has MN become just another platform that silences women?

[Sparklybutold]

www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2022/05/mumsnets-founder-justine-roberts-it-is-a-place-where-women-can-speak-the-truth

What are your thoughts? Interesting piece above but my experience using MN has seen threads being deleted if women actually talk about there experiences within the real world. It feels that ‘hate speech’ has become muddled with the political agenda to silence women who dare to speak there truth.

I mean, I would be surprised, cause I'm always right, but let's run with it

This could be my problem too 😁

For example "did you suddenly realise how ridiculous your first statement was?"

God I hate those types too. Passive aggressive and not especially articulate.

I don't understand why this board is held to a higher standard than others, and I don't understand why someone saying 'I hate those passive aggressive types' in what is a perfect example of passive aggressive, rude posting don't feel they have to maintain the standard of politeness they expect from others.

I'm not sure I agree . Major discussions about important current issues are shut down because too many posts / threads are deleted . I'm not blaming just M/N though because there are people who just hit the report button if your view differs. There is also a pack mentality on here where voices are shut down because of the noise

So, AdamRyan, you've said, I think (I'm eating a bowl of muesli while scrolling so I may have misread...)

What people say here is horseshit.
You feel crucified when people politely but firmly disagree with you.
You describe a situation where three or four women politely say they don't agree with you as a pile-on.
And you want us to be nice and not say anything when we disagree with you?
Have I got that right?

Total misunderstanding actually patti

I said I used to be a prolific poster. My personal views are very close to yours and still it gets implied I'm stupid, I don't understand, I'm not a good enough feminist, I'm too new to the debate and should listen. It's such horseshit and I find it offensive.
It's horseshit to imply I'm stupid and don't understand. I would never call another posters opinion horseshit and I haven't this time. But thanks for the good example of where posters misread what I wrote and present the worst possible view back.

I describe the behaviours I see towards myself other posters as being crucified/a pile on, when someone straw mans what they said and others enthusiastically join in with pulling apart the misunderstood straw man. It happened upthread where a poster said about working with children who feel born in the wrong body - several posters took issue with the concept of "being born in the wrong body" and why she used the phrase, even though it was very clear she wasn't saying she believed people could be born in the wrong body.

I don't care if people disagree with me. I do care if they put words in my mouth and call me stupid.

It's aggressive and puts me off posting, it will do the same to others who are less persistent about arguing than me too. That makes the board an echo chamber, which means some women are silenced, which was ops question.

That may be fine of course.

So, I am inarticulate, passive aggressive and rude for pointing out the absurdity of the statement the human right to live as they please?

(slightly sloppy language in first of my posts, clarification in second).

No, you completely changed the entire basis of your first comment it bears no relation to the second.

If you think women politely but firmly saying they disagree with you and explaining why they think that way is being crucified I don't think there's anywhere on the great interweb where you will feel safe. It's mortifying, I agree, when one posts something stupid without thinking it through properly, and others respond by pointing out the hole in one's argument. When in that position I read and learn and feel a fool for a while — but crucified? I think when you start using that kind of language about one of the better regulated, politer forums on t'internet, you need to wonder whether you need some time out from SM.

I find the forensic analysis and bluntness here to be refreshing. Nay, liberating even.

Deliberately misinterpreting someone's position is the opposite of polite patti. And you keep doing it.

I can see you are enjoying baiting me, so I won't be responding to you again.

Hi everyone - this isn't in Site Stuff and so we're not sure whether you want input from MNHQ or not, but, in any case, we want to say that in our moderation we always try and be as fair, impartial and transparent as possible.

Our aim is to encourage civil and mutually respectful conversation and our guidelines on sex and gender discussions were designed with that in mind.

We also sometimes make mistakes or misinterpret things - it's okay to challenge our decisions. The best way to do this is by sending us a mail at [email protected] as these things can get lost on big threads.

Thanks.

Fine by me, AdamRyan.

Thank you YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

I think many? most? of us appreciate MNHQ's position. Sadly the thread seems to have been diverted onto one poster's whinges rather than the original subject of moderation issues.

It's horseshit to imply I'm stupid and don't understand. I would never call another posters opinion horseshit

Can you not honestly see when you directly contradict your first assertion in the sentence following?

Don't mention it. You'll crucify him.

That's not the point though. It's not an issue where someone said something they realize was dumb, which can of course happen.

Sometimes also people say things in a a way that is somewhat unclear in a discussion. It happens to everyone, sometimes just because of the discussion becoming more technical as it goes on.

People need to be allowed to clarify statements like that, to refine them, or just say, ah, I didn't mean it that way, I meant it in this sense. Otherwise it's just a mater of trying to find gotchas, it's not even a real discussion.

I thought it was pretty clear that by "people should be able to live as they like" what was meant was wearing clothes a name, maybe pronouns, and not things like changing rooms or maybe legal gender change - since the poster had said that she thought that already.

At the same time it could easily be taken differently and it can be easy to lose track of what people said in earlier posts.

You can't have a discussion without that kind of give and take and being an ass about it is not "robust". It's just anti-intellectual.

Eh?
I'd really love you to show where I said another posters opinion was horseshit. Unless it was the opinion that I am stupid. In which case that's not an opinion, its an insult.

Eh? I never said another person's opinion was horseshit.

Its a difficult, maybe impossible, balancing act to be 'kind' to every poster and not have threads derailed. For every genuine poster who doesn't see the issue and it just saying their view, they'll be those who are deliberately wanting to stop the discussion and using the same points to do that.

As others have said, I think people are asking more of this board than they would of any other board here, and any other site.

I'm so grateful for MN. I used to work in a very woke HE institution. It has ridden roughshod over women's rights in favour of TWAW perspectives and working there proved very isolating as I became convinced that my gender-critical views were firmly in the minority.

This is the only space I have felt safe to express my concerns and opinions and where I have found solidarity amongst other like-minded women. It has stopped me falling down a rabbit-hole of isolation and despair.

Thank you MNHQ

Well said.