Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

[Bosky]

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

Is that what they're calling rape these days?

Liz clearly states in the tweets that the sex was consensual.

Anyway I asked if this has been reported to the police if you consider it "evidence". Did the police press charges?

Would you say that to the face of Liz’s traumatised victim?

It's what the Theys are calling rape, I guess.

Anyway, it's somewhat academic. It's relevant as part of the background to the current events - though lets not forget this actually began with KiwiFarms showing evidence of embezzlement by the Trans Lifeline charity and Liz Fong-Jones using his Google position to try and get the Farms' email service dropped in response. Trans LifeLine was later convicted in court of same embezelment.

No, the motivation is not the key part here. It's that a couple of well-connected trans woman have been using their status and pull to coerce businesses and neutral providers to deny a website service because it says things they disagree with. There's never been any successful legal challenge against the Farms and if it were responsible for a fraction of the things it is accused of, there would have been

LostMarbles is trying to derail from that. And fwiw, I find the 'it's only rape because I had dog hair on me' story risible, but that's not what most of us should be concerned with today. It's the ability to do an end run around any legal process and shut down an archive of reporting on sexual abuse and other transgressions.

This is what Jersh says.

"We have archived Liz Fong-Jone's direct admission that a person in Zurich accused him of some form of sexual assault. His strategy was to minimize this sexual assault claim as a mere "consent accident", and downplay it as a bizarre misunderstanding over dog hair. It is not possible to know the specifics of the original claim because all evidence, except Liz Fong-Jones's tweets admitting it happened, have been removed from the Internet."

All Kiwi Farms does is archive stuff. If allegation was not true surely Liz Fong-Jones would be in a position to use libel/slander provisions against the accuser rather than threats and intimidation against a site that archives what has happened elsewhere on the internet.

Kiwi Farms, perhaps despite itself, has done a lot of good.

"Liz clearly states in the tweets that the sex was consensual."

To be absolutely complete, Liz Fong-Jones states that the sex was consensual, the woman he had sex with just doesn't agree that it was.

Considering Fong-Jones’ social circle, I would imagine the victim is most likely also a transgender person.

Would you really tell a trans person that they are wrong about being raped because their rapist claimed on Twitter that it was a ‘consent accident’ @MerlinsLostMarbles?

Liz directly says the sex was consensual in the last paragraph and throughout it is clear they are trying to explain their innocence. I think their use of the phrase "consent accident" was a poor choice of words which has been twisted by some trying to claim it is a "confession".

As I've said, do report it if you think it's evidence but I don't think it will go far IMHO.

People can talk about whatever, of course. But I do just want to state again my personal view that what matters here is more about the trans lobbies ability to silence criticism. That is the threat part of this.

"Liz directly says the sex was consensual"

And again, lets be complete. Liz Fong-Jones says the sex was consensual, merely that the partner doesn't agree it was.

Anyway, this is now a boring loop and it's clear few agree with you anyway, so...

"We believe you... except if your rapist is a TRA"

Then it’s just a ‘consent accident’.

When did this forum get so overrun with apologists for male violence and sexual violence? This is the second one in the last few hours.

Despite Fong-Jones trying to shut the farms down, if you google the name, there's a lot of evidence out there that they are a really nasty human being.

Some missing evidence of it, too. Don't know if MN will compress my image and make it unreadable again, but here's the history section of Liz Fong-Jones' Wikipedia page. I've never seen a page history like that before. Some politically charged subjects like the Holocaust you see a lot of revisions, but you can still see what the edits and removed contributions were. Here? Someone has blitzed the logs and removed the history and who made the edits.

god I hate how easy it is to censor stuff on the web

What's this mean to be exactly? A Wiki page with lots of edits doesn't prove any of the points you're making. It's possible the edits were troll/abusive comments being removed.

I can also see from the image their Wikipedia page has been protected because someone edited it to dox them, you know the sort of thing kiwifarms does.

Is Liz aware there are people on Mumsnet obsessed with her and trying to libellously paint them as a "rapist"?

@MerlinsLostMarbles
"Is Liz aware there are people on Mumsnet obsessed with her and trying to libellously paint them as a "rapist"?"

It wasn't rape. It was a Consent Accident. Can't you read?

Is Liz aware there are people on Mumsnet obsessed with her and trying to libellously paint them as a "rapist"?

Them? I believe Liz prefers she/her pronouns. Please don't misgender Liz, transphobe.

The Streisand effect in action.

I had no idea about who Liz was and the allegations against them until they decided to shut down all sources documenting their alleged nefarious behaviour.

I've always had qualms about KF in respect of the premise of free speech spilling over into non moderated hateful content, whilst simultaneously being impressed by the investigative approach of many posters and the documentation of receipts.

Overall, my experience of KF (as a lurker) is that it exposes more bad behaviour wrt the subject than it encourages in its commentary given there is general expectation of quality evidence when designing a person (Lolcow) as "worthy" of a thread.

Hadn't heard of Liz Fong Jones. I shall do some googling. Thanks, Merlin, for keeping the thread bumped.

Say what you like about Jersh or the farmers, they're bloody tenacious. I really hope Fong-Jones feels the full force of the Streisand effect.

nothingcomestonothing speaking of tenacity, tortuous like . . . 😎

Ooh, does this mean it’s back online?