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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

1000 replies

Bosky · 13/09/2022 06:04

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
NecessaryScene · 28/10/2022 20:11

Getting back on topic...

(is it just me that thinks it odd that Marge wants to talk about Kiwi Farms on other threads, but wants to talk about other things on the Kiwi Farms thread?)

New (long!) piece by Glenn Greenwald, which spends a few paragraphs on Kiwi Farms as part of the larger picture:

The Consortium Imposing the Growing Censorship Regime

Within less than 24 hours of the publication of Collins’ article — blasted to millions of people across the various platforms owned by NBC and Collins’ corporate owner, the Comcast Corp. — the CEO of this powerful company [Cloudflare] reversed himself, groveling before the media's censorship advocates and vowing that this would be a one-time exception. “This is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with,” he wrote, as he announced that he would do it anyway (it will, needless to say, be the opposite of a one-time exception, since any millennial censor at The Huffington Post or Vox can now easily force Cloudflare to keep censoring by exploiting this new precedent with new articles about their censorship target using the “worse-than-Kiwifarms” formulation).

And thus did this corporate "journalist” once again usher in a brand new escalation in the strengthening censorship regime: tinkering with the infrastructure of the internet to expel sites and people anathema to liberal pieties. As usual, not just liberals but also the left cheered this forced capitulation, as they are somehow convinced that the world will be a better place when the power to silence voices and ideas is in the collective hands of the U.S. Security State, their oligarchical partners who own Big Tech, and their servants who masquerade as "journalists” deep within the bowels of the West's largest media corporations. Polls leave no doubt that Democrats are vastly more supportive of internet censorship not only by large corporations but also by the state, and that is the mindset that asserts itself over and over to cheer these censorship schemes by the West's most powerful institutional actors.

This is the regime of censorship whose tentacles grow each month and whose power expands inexorably. Like all censors, the consortium that controls and funds this regime recognizes that whoever controls the flow of information will wield unchallenged power, and that few powers are more potent and tyrannical than the ability to relegate one's critics to the most distant fringes or to silence them altogether.

Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine
ItsLateHumpty · 28/10/2022 22:50

(is it just me that thinks it odd that Marge wants to talk about Kiwi Farms on other threads, but wants to talk about other things on the Kiwi Farms thread?)

Now that you point it out, it’s very obvious and yes it’s odd, but does fit in with that posters style of sparple squirrel posting.

Thanks for sharing that article, very powerful. I know Josh has said very similar and I find the direction of travel toward tyranny and censorship terrifying but even on these threads there are a number of posters who seem to dumbly cheer it on.

Bosky · 29/10/2022 12:23

MargaritaPie · 28/10/2022 19:20

"I would find it odd if randoms took pictures outside my house,"

So would I, but that's because I'm non-famous and live in a normal boring common-person's house.

However If I become a billionaire, bought a castle and listed it on tourist websites I wouldn't find it odd at all if people turned up to take photos.

"However If I become a billionaire, bought a castle and listed it on tourist websites"

Stop with the nonsense that JK Rowling actually contacted "tourist websites" asking them to list her home. 🌙

NecssaryScene

"Marge wants to talk about Kiwi Farms on other threads, but wants to talk about other things on the Kiwi Farms thread?"

Intriguing! Now I need to do an Advanced Search to find out what else Marge doesn't want us to talk about.

Thank you for that article by Glenn Greenwald:

"The Consortium Imposing the Growing Censorship Regime -- and Our New Live, Prime-Time Rumble Program"
We are launching a new live, one-hour, prime-time news broadcast. Armed with cable-sized budgets, it will be part of a network that Russell Brand has already debuted.
greenwald.substack.com/p/the-consortium-imposing-the-growing

. . . Still wondering why Marge is so massively interested in Kiwi Farms . . . despite never having heard of it until very recently nor visited it, of course.

OP posts:
OldGardinia · 30/10/2022 09:52

The references to doxing and bomb threats by MargaritaPie are a red-herring. So far as I'm aware an old account on KF which had an extremely low post-count and hadn't been active for a long time suddenly made a post talking about how someone should bombing Keffels or something, it was deleted by the user themself a few minutes later, iirc. And was very vaguely worded to begin with.

Josh wasn't contacted by the police about it; indeed no evidence that Keffels nor any ally of Keffel's took it to the police. But it's brief and inexplicable existence was apparently then taken to CloudFlare and others as "evidence" that the Farm's was "doxing people" leading to "credible threats of violence".

My thought? It was posted to provide a rationale to bring down the site. The fact that it was immediately taken not to the authorities but direct to a service provider to try and get the site down is very telling.

Not merely telling but it is the essence of the problem. We are now in an age of "pull", rather than legal process. The Farms has had major DDOS services withdrawn, ISPs drop it, hosting companies refuse business, payment providers block it, attorneys have been directly campaigned against to try and prevent Josh from having legal representation... Not one aspect of which has gone through legal process or provided any normal assessment of evidence or reaching out to the client (Josh / KiwiFarms) about defence. All of this is via rumour, harassment controls and TRAs in positions of influence who know each other.

When a society enters that state, then those not in positions of influence are easily deplatformed, dehumanised and dealt with. It's not new - the principle is the same as excommunication, of not being in the Party in the Soviet Union and any number of other historical parallels. Western Democracy is not supposed to be mob rule. But we're at the point where legal process are simply not in the loop. Obsoleted by business and people and groups with "pull".

To counter that you need to organise and build "pull" of your own. Not everybody hope someone else will do something.

People here are debating whether it should be allowed that a relatively easily determined address from publicly shared information by the person themself should be permitted to be posted; when the reason the site is targeted is not that at all, but rather information about people like Keffel's pushing child surgery, how to make home made hormones and hide this from parents, etc. It's the latter that they want to hide, not their address!

Josh is apparently working on a new solution. Maybe he'll pull it off and maybe he wont. But he did write the following which I like:

"For the record, and for those reading outside our community, it is worth mentioning that I am very unexceptional. I have no formal education in computers and I have no significant financial support. Everything that I do is self-taught, as needed, and with a shoestring budget.

That it takes the combined efforts of thousands of people, multiple concurrent lawsuits, non-profit orgs like the ADL, and entire governments to even throw us off our footing should be encouraging to anyone young who is pessimistic about how the situation looks for online freedom of expression. A single, sufficiently-stubborn person can do a lot - and that person can be you."

Win or lose, this has exposed a lot about the people against Free Speech and GC views and their influence. And that has value in and of itself. What was that line someone said: "Remember: if the situation were truly hopeless their propaganda wouldn't be necessary”

Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine
MassiveWordSalad · 30/10/2022 21:32

That's a great post @OldGardinia

Trustylion · 30/10/2022 23:35

Welcome back my friends
to the show that never ends

Dreikanter · 01/11/2022 10:21

The Streisand Effect is a wonderful thing.

Everyone can read the KF post detailed in Para 4 (tee hee).

OldGardinia · 01/11/2022 10:48

Watching the Farms become the last line of defence against TRA censorship of the Web is beyond hilarious. It's like that scene in a Western where one of the bar-fighters stumbles into the guy just trying to quietly drink a beer and he slowly puts it down.

Keffels wasn't mocked for being trans - lot of trans people out there and some even get some respect on the farms. Keffels was mocked because he ran a "catboy ranch", flirted with minors and was helping kids learn how to make bootleg oestrogen at home.

This is how Jordan Peterson was "created". He wasn't out there campaigning against the trans movement or anything else. He was just a university professor who was told that he should use someone's preferred pronouns and said "I shouldn't be forced to". Josh just runs a web forum where people can say what they like so long as it's not actually threats or porn. This whole situation is because Keffels and a few acolytes said "move" and Josh said "no". 😂

Also, Josh now has to be one of the world's leading experts on keeping a website up.

ItsLateHumpty · 01/11/2022 11:50

The Farms is back up on clear net so yay for Josh

Also he posted this…

“Fun fact: [redacted to] TRAs have set up automated programs to alert them when the site is back up so they can immediately start crying about it together and spin up DDoS attacks. I don't know why these people are addicted to talking on Twitter like movie villains but whatever.

Which made me wry chuckle because of your “It's like that scene in a Western where one of the bar-fighters stumbles into the guy just trying to quietly drink a beer and he slowly puts it down.” @OldGardinia

There are a fair few trans people who post on KF who are beyond fucked off with the likes of Yaniv and Keffals - they just wanna repost and archive stuff posted freely on the internet that some people would rather was memory holed.

Long may JM and co have before they find the end of the sidewalk.

TheClogLady · 01/11/2022 11:54

I wonder what Josh would be doing in a sliding doors style universe where he’d never even heard the name ‘Chris Chan’?

Interesting that the case Justice Nicklin repeatedly refers to regarding the definition of harassment is another Hayden case (Hayden v Dickensen, summarised here: www.carruthers-law.co.uk/articles/the-protection-from-harassment-act-1997/ )

I wonder if J. Nicklin has ever imagined a sliding doors style universe where he never meets Hayden (and thus has not had to read the quoted KiwiFarms thread)?

I hope Josh is at least able to find some wry amusement at the thought of a British High Court judge perusing what is surely one of the most niche and least readable threads in all of KF’s history?

I like to imagine Justice Nicklin with pince-nez style glasses balanced on the tip of his nose looking up KF lingo on Urban Dictionary.

Welcome to 2022! It’s bloody bonkers!

Interesting that a high court judge has pretty much reiterated what we’ve been saying all along, that KiwiFarms is operating within the legal framework of the country in which it is domiciled, that the owner’s motivation is protection of freedom of expression and that deliberate use of a sex based pronoun and the sharing of a publicly accessible document is not necessarily enough to constitute harassment in this context (which is a pretty mild post by KF standards).

Also interesting that a High Court Judge has pretty much echoed our ‘no one is compelled to read about themselves on a gossip site’ sentiment.

if this carries on we may only need another couple of cases before Justice Nicklin is outright standing up for Josh against his detractors 🤣

Datun · 01/11/2022 12:03

if this carries on we may only need another couple of cases before Justice Nicklin is outright standing up for Josh against his detractors 🤣

The unintended consequences of transactivism has led to the acquisition of late onset feminism for thousands and thousands of women, and a fresh and fierce desire to protect free-speech.

Sliding doors in action, right there.

Wanderingowl · 01/11/2022 16:36

TheClogLady · 01/11/2022 11:54

I wonder what Josh would be doing in a sliding doors style universe where he’d never even heard the name ‘Chris Chan’?

Interesting that the case Justice Nicklin repeatedly refers to regarding the definition of harassment is another Hayden case (Hayden v Dickensen, summarised here: www.carruthers-law.co.uk/articles/the-protection-from-harassment-act-1997/ )

I wonder if J. Nicklin has ever imagined a sliding doors style universe where he never meets Hayden (and thus has not had to read the quoted KiwiFarms thread)?

I hope Josh is at least able to find some wry amusement at the thought of a British High Court judge perusing what is surely one of the most niche and least readable threads in all of KF’s history?

I like to imagine Justice Nicklin with pince-nez style glasses balanced on the tip of his nose looking up KF lingo on Urban Dictionary.

Welcome to 2022! It’s bloody bonkers!

Interesting that a high court judge has pretty much reiterated what we’ve been saying all along, that KiwiFarms is operating within the legal framework of the country in which it is domiciled, that the owner’s motivation is protection of freedom of expression and that deliberate use of a sex based pronoun and the sharing of a publicly accessible document is not necessarily enough to constitute harassment in this context (which is a pretty mild post by KF standards).

Also interesting that a High Court Judge has pretty much echoed our ‘no one is compelled to read about themselves on a gossip site’ sentiment.

if this carries on we may only need another couple of cases before Justice Nicklin is outright standing up for Josh against his detractors 🤣

I'm imagining a tv show where Josh is just some regular schlub with a job in a shop or a call centre in a sane universe. But his best female friend becomes the latest companion of The Doctor and Josh gets swept into an inter dimensional adventure with them and learns his alter ego is an important part of the resistance against the Cybermen crazy tra assault on free speech. Poor schlub Josh's brain explodes because what's happening in our universe is too stupid to comprehend as real.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 01/11/2022 17:19

oooh look, there's the farms again

I don't even like the website, but seeing that it is up makes me feel that things are a little better than they are when it's down

huge kudos to josh

Asdavaluesausage · 01/11/2022 17:20

Whoop. Josh wins again

NecessaryScene · 01/11/2022 17:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MargaritaPie · 04/11/2022 19:01

Is he really "winning" when he can barely keep the site up for more than a week before it goes down because of a DDoS, hack or because their provider suspends their services after receiving complaints?

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 04/11/2022 19:04

lmao at this thread bump.

You should send your fan mail to Josh directly, Pie. There’s no guarantee he’ll read this thread.

GingerPCatt · 04/11/2022 19:05

Unlike doxxing, DDOS attacks are illegal in the US.
www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/?view=article&id=243:ddos-attacks-are-illegal&catid=2

Trustylion · 04/11/2022 20:39

What hack has he experienced?

Happylittlechicken · 04/11/2022 20:43

I think josh does read it. And particularly enjoys @MargaritaPie s contributions. Marge is a bit of a name on the MN thread on KF. Fame at last Marg.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 04/11/2022 21:07

Happylittlechicken · 04/11/2022 20:43

I think josh does read it. And particularly enjoys @MargaritaPie s contributions. Marge is a bit of a name on the MN thread on KF. Fame at last Marg.

Is she?

oooo👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

wait…I’m not 100% sure thats a good thing 🤔

SnapeAlways · 04/11/2022 21:18

There’s a Mumsnet thread on the Mango Ranch? How did I miss this?

Happylittlechicken · 04/11/2022 21:47

SnapeAlways · 04/11/2022 21:18

There’s a Mumsnet thread on the Mango Ranch? How did I miss this?

It’s well hidden but there.well worth a read.

Needmoresleep · 05/11/2022 00:55

Marge, what have you been up to?

I just went over to explore the MN thread, starring Marge, but the site can’t be reached. Just when Marge was enjoying their five minutes of fame, down under style.

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