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Original poster

Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

1000 replies

Bosky · 13/09/2022 06:04

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
Moonatics · 19/09/2022 15:25

MargaritaPie · 19/09/2022 15:11

"and as no laws were being broken on KF"

I think views differ on that one.

Cloudflare were initially reluctant to drop services to KF, it was only when they realised the criminal activity and the safety threat posed by the site they took action.

Interesting to see the site was hacked because of something which Cloudflare would have protected against.

Sigh, views or opinions are not law.
If a law had been broken it still doesn't mean shutting an entire website down.
For the hard of thinking, we are mostly in the UK, the farms is a USA based site.
The two countries have different laws. There was no illegal activity in the defined sense of legal on the site, morally there could well have been , but morals are personal, my morals probably dont look much like your morals, but neither of us has illegal morals, because that isnt a thing. My views on certain website having a presence may well, differ from yours, again not illegal.

Tl/dr
MP is wrong, again.

TheClogLady · 19/09/2022 15:28

The only opinions that count in law are those of Judge and Jury, Marge,

and no arrests or criminal charges have been made

i’m sure you’ll update us should anything of that nature happen.

NecessaryScene · 19/09/2022 15:29

Cloudflare were initially reluctant to drop services to KF, it was only when they realised the criminal activity and the safety threat posed by the site they took action.

That you are merely repeating a libel is not a defence, you know. And you're on shakier ground than Matthew Prince, as you're potentially operating under UK law, unlike CloudFlare and Kiwi Farms.

Now, Prince can get away with saying whatever the hell he likes about Kiwi Farms - including assertions of criminal activity - for largely the same reason Kiwi Farms can do so about anyone else - US freedom-of-speech laws.

But there's a reason people often end up in UK courts for that sort of thing.

Personally, I would think if there was any criminal activity and "imminent threat to life" or whatever CloudFlare said, the authorities could have at least managed some sort of action. Even just sending Null an e-mail or something?

I mean, they could have shut down the domain and seized the servers (at any point in the last 8 years). That's done quite routinely, when something illegal's happening. Not hard to get a court order with a modicum of evidence that stands up to a cursory glance from a judge.

But so far they don't even seem to have managed to muster the effort to send an e-mail. I'm super unconvinced.

(Maybe if Null had put up a sticker or ribbon? That seems to get some attention, at least.)

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/09/2022 15:33

margarita

what criminal activity?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2022 15:38

giving out this information to anyone not entitled is against the law, and if someone works there and finds it out for others, that too is against the law and as I'm not currently that busy and this is a hill I'm willing to die on, I'll see them in court.

It's covered by GDPR and the fines are considerable.

AlisonDonut · 19/09/2022 17:22

MargaritaPie · 19/09/2022 15:11

"and as no laws were being broken on KF"

I think views differ on that one.

Cloudflare were initially reluctant to drop services to KF, it was only when they realised the criminal activity and the safety threat posed by the site they took action.

Interesting to see the site was hacked because of something which Cloudflare would have protected against.

There was no safety threat posed by the site.

kittensinthekitchen · 19/09/2022 17:29

Depends if the hacker(s) decide to publicly release all or part of the data.

The 'hacker(s)' don't seem to have downloaded the user database.

"and as no laws were being broken on KF"

I think views differ on that one.

Yes, your view and the actual law. No legal action has been taken has it? Just illegal action - DDOS attacks and hacking, neither of which came from the KF side.

So @MargaritaPie do you still maintain you only learned of Kiwifarms when this kicked off? You keep avoiding this question and going off to ice a cake.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/09/2022 17:30

AlisonDonut · 19/09/2022 17:22

There was no safety threat posed by the site.

Show quote history

Well margarita appears to have been on KF a lot

i think talking bollocks is part of the grieving process

Ofcourseshecan · 19/09/2022 17:39

landOFconfusion · 13/09/2022 21:05

Mumsnet members are soliciting donations to support a person who has been hosting websites for neo-Nazi hate groups. So I am asking people to stop for a moment, step back from their keyboards, and think seriously before they send money to Moon.

Moon may well be entitled to free speech, but he is not entitled to freedom from its consequences. If he wants to sell hosting services that amplify the voices of neo-Nazi hate groups like Action Zealandia or continue hosting videos that document and glorify mass killings such as the 2019 Christchurch Mosque Shootings then people deserve to know this before they start sending him money.

Show quote history

Moon may well be entitled to free speech, but he is not entitled to freedom from its consequences

You made me laugh incredulously. Do you really think women, or people like Moon, are impressed by blatant threats? As George Orwell said, liberty is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 04:03

Ofcourseshecan · 19/09/2022 17:39

Moon may well be entitled to free speech, but he is not entitled to freedom from its consequences

You made me laugh incredulously. Do you really think women, or people like Moon, are impressed by blatant threats? As George Orwell said, liberty is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.

Show quote history

Moon is reaping the bitter harvest of his bad life decisions. Freedom of speech has never implied that there is a freedom from its consequences.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.

TheClogLady · 20/09/2022 05:15

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 04:03

Moon is reaping the bitter harvest of his bad life decisions. Freedom of speech has never implied that there is a freedom from its consequences.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.

Show quote history

I don’t think you understand the word ‘freedom’.

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 05:53

Ofcourseshecan · 19/09/2022 17:39

Moon may well be entitled to free speech, but he is not entitled to freedom from its consequences

You made me laugh incredulously. Do you really think women, or people like Moon, are impressed by blatant threats? As George Orwell said, liberty is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.

Show quote history

Moon is reaping the bitter harvest of his bad life decisions. Freedom of speech has never implied that there is a freedom from its consequences.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 08:06

NecessaryScene · 19/09/2022 15:29

Cloudflare were initially reluctant to drop services to KF, it was only when they realised the criminal activity and the safety threat posed by the site they took action.

That you are merely repeating a libel is not a defence, you know. And you're on shakier ground than Matthew Prince, as you're potentially operating under UK law, unlike CloudFlare and Kiwi Farms.

Now, Prince can get away with saying whatever the hell he likes about Kiwi Farms - including assertions of criminal activity - for largely the same reason Kiwi Farms can do so about anyone else - US freedom-of-speech laws.

But there's a reason people often end up in UK courts for that sort of thing.

Personally, I would think if there was any criminal activity and "imminent threat to life" or whatever CloudFlare said, the authorities could have at least managed some sort of action. Even just sending Null an e-mail or something?

I mean, they could have shut down the domain and seized the servers (at any point in the last 8 years). That's done quite routinely, when something illegal's happening. Not hard to get a court order with a modicum of evidence that stands up to a cursory glance from a judge.

But so far they don't even seem to have managed to muster the effort to send an e-mail. I'm super unconvinced.

(Maybe if Null had put up a sticker or ribbon? That seems to get some attention, at least.)

Moon doesn’t host any servers or equipment in the US because it puts him at risk of investigation and prosecution for some of the material he has been hosting on behalf of groups that have been implicated as threats to US homeland security.

The servers have been placed in countries that don’t have reciprocal relationships with US law enforcement agencies.

nothingcomestonothing · 20/09/2022 08:55

Moon doesn’t host any servers or equipment in the US because it puts him at risk of investigation and prosecution for some of the material he has been hosting on behalf of groups that have been implicated as threats to US homeland security.

That's not why. Try again.

KatVonlabonk · 20/09/2022 09:14

Bosky · 19/09/2022 11:17

Just noting:

  1. "coldmaitai" appears never to have posted on Mumsnet before
  2. the "cocktail connection" with "MargaritaPie", our resident expert on KF and its history who also claims never to have heard of it prior to the earlier Mumsnet thread.
Show quote history

Lol
Can't get anything past mumsnet, can they?

ArabellaScott · 20/09/2022 10:02

So people are just going to come on here and spaff a lot of rubbish with no evidence and expect us to believe it? Try harder.

AlisonDonut · 20/09/2022 10:05

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 08:06

Moon doesn’t host any servers or equipment in the US because it puts him at risk of investigation and prosecution for some of the material he has been hosting on behalf of groups that have been implicated as threats to US homeland security.

The servers have been placed in countries that don’t have reciprocal relationships with US law enforcement agencies.

Show quote history

They know who Moon is. If they have issues with threats against homeland security they can email, call or visit him.

He is quite amenable to discussions about hosting 'illegal in the USA' issues.

GingerPCatt · 20/09/2022 10:12

nothingcomestonothing · 20/09/2022 08:55

Moon doesn’t host any servers or equipment in the US because it puts him at risk of investigation and prosecution for some of the material he has been hosting on behalf of groups that have been implicated as threats to US homeland security.

That's not why. Try again.

Other than a few memes, the farmers aren’t content creators. Any “illegal” content is archives of what others (like keffels) have put online. So if it is illegal, the govt should be going after the lolcow not KF. Don’t shoot the messenger/archivist.
Also, even in the US doxxing isn’t illegal. Whether or not it should be, is up for debate.

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 10:34

AlisonDonut · 20/09/2022 10:05

They know who Moon is. If they have issues with threats against homeland security they can email, call or visit him.

He is quite amenable to discussions about hosting 'illegal in the USA' issues.

Show quote history

Moon doesn’t live in the US.

TheClogLady · 20/09/2022 10:43

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 10:34

Moon doesn’t live in the US.

Show quote history

Half the time you lot day he lives with his mum, the other half in Russia/Ukraine.

you seem like a right bunch of sad sacks who can’t tell your arses from your elbows, frankly.

Moonatics · 20/09/2022 11:09

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 10:34

Moon doesn’t live in the US.

Show quote history

But he is American? I assume we all agree on that.

You can be charged in the US for a crime committed outside the US that violates US law.

So actually if jersh had really committed a crime so heinous, he could easily be charged. Most places have an agreement to send people back to their home country if necessary, so it's not like he cant face justice if charged.

Frankly there is nothing to charge him with or it would have happened already.

AlisonDonut · 20/09/2022 12:01

landOFconfusion · 20/09/2022 10:34

Moon doesn’t live in the US.

Show quote history

He quite clearly said he hadn't been contacted. And as far as I am aware, emails do easily cross borders. So do phone calls. If you are suggesting that this man who is visible on the internet is somehow completely uncontactable by the FBI/CIA/Anyone with a badge then I think you are possibly pulling someone's plonker. As we used to say.

ItsLateHumpty · 20/09/2022 22:18

Cancel culture not a thing they said…..

Latest from Josh Moon

“1. My mailing address at 913 Beal Parkway provided by iPostal1 has been terminated. If you sent mail there, you will receive a return to sender.”

“2. Lolcow LLC's agent from WyomingAgents.com - which I have used for half a decade now - is terminating me. Their reason for this is a bullshit "ties to Russia". Their cited sanction only applies to forming businesses for Russian citizens/companies, which I am not. My only ties to Eastern Europe at this point are in Kyiv.”

“They have gone after my attorneys recently and now they're going after my agents. They do not want me to have legal representation, a mailing address, or a phone number. “

“I don't know what the outlook for the site is, but I hope you all realize by now that they won't stop at taking down websites. They want you to fucking die”

It’s a very worrying trend and one that seems to work for the TRA so they will keep going as big tech etc seems to break to the pressure.

I wouldn’t be so smug if I was on the ‘winning’ side of this, because when the tide turns, and it will, they should fear for their freedoms.

TheClogLady · 20/09/2022 22:19

PayPal have ditched the Free Speech Union.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/20/paypal-shuts-accounts-free-speech-union/

I can’t read the whole article, but is it stupidly optimistic of me to think the government is going to have to intervene soon? You can’t just refuse service to organisations and individuals because you don’t agree with their perfectly legal positions…

nauticant · 20/09/2022 22:28

If you put that link into the site archive ph you'll find the whole article.

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