Mermaids versus LGB alliance in court today??

[GrabbyGabby]

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/09/trans-charity-mermaids-appeal-lgb-alliance-status

Not sure if it is today or next week. Do we know if this is open like the tribunals?

they are trying to remove rights from trans people. That can’t be good faith.

Hope they ask which rights.

@Shortpoet

He Tweeted:

The third point is they have quoted the so-called LGB Alliance - a dark money funded astro-turfed hate group - on the healthcare of trans teenagers. What next? Will the BBC be quoting white supremacists on whether sickle cell anaemia should be treated on the NHS?

Roberts says that gender identity and same sex attraction are "inextricably linked".

Can someone screenshot the fox bashers tweets - I'm blocked. Thanks

@BudgieMustTryHarder

The third point is they have quoted the so-called LGB Alliance - a dark money funded astro-turfed hate group - on the healthcare of trans teenagers. What next? Will the BBC be quoting white supremacists on whether sickle cell anaemia should be treated on the NHS?

So: LGBA are actually bad faith despite believing themseles to be good faith. And the words they use have 'hidden meanings' that aren't the meanings we think they mean.

Someone has decided LGBA are 'bad', with bad intentions, and all the absence of evidence of this somehow proves it. Amazing.

Thanks Ameanstreakamilewide

That does sound unhinged.

Oh, I do hope he explains this further.

You're welcome and it bloody does!

He's got a bit of everything in there. 'Dark money funded', 'hate group' 'trans health care for teenagers', 'white supremacists'.

Roberts says that organisations that focus on gay men have to include people who are born female, legal recognition not required, although his definition, pulled out of him with pliers, of "legal recognition" is self-ID.

R -there was a minority of people who didn’t agree.
AR - it seems that Stonewall was willing to jettison the people who didn’t agree?
R - I wouldn’t agree with the phrasing but it seems like that’s what Stonewall did.

This is a replay of the Forstater vs CGD witness statements isn't it?

Where supposedly highly intelligent people could not come up with a way that Maya could have worded what she said in a way that was 'acceptable'. It is clear the brainwashing effect of the mantraing.

This witness is stating that there would be a group of people who did not agree with the change of focus that Stonewall pivoted to, and that Stonewall was not considered transphobic before the pivot, but that the group who is now started with those Stonewall 'jettisoned' is transphobic. .... because x said so... And nothing anyone can say will convince this witness otherwise.

Roberts is being asked what he means by "transmen are men" and is falling into incoherence.

I suspect he fell in quite some time ago.

Paraphrasing Roberts slightly, "I believe that transmen are men and should be treated as men and that's what the Equality Act says".

Thanks Ameanstreak

Nor sure where we are going here. My understanding is that LGBA do not exclude anyone if they are LGB, regardless of trans status?

AR - there is no objective difference therefore between a trans man and a trans woman.

.... the sound of zillion refresh buttons for this one!

He's very ably demonstrating the extent to which trans men are men is a thought terminating cliche.... he is simply incapable of expanding on our explaining it.

Roberts' argument, he's not Mermaids, is that LGBA would exclude transmen attracted to men and transwomen attracted to women chilling19.

Thanks nauticant - so do LGBA exclude on this basis? My understanding is that they do not?

Is the statement "Gay men do not have sex with people with female bodies" transphobic Mr Roberts?

Roberts is going everywhere he can to avoid engaging with the question. In his view the question is "too binary".

Do LGBA "exclude" anyone at all? They aren't a membership organisation are they? Anyone can get their newsletter or read their tweets.

Looks like this is going to be every bit as bat shit as we had hoped.

Yes, that is what I thought

I think Roberts is using the word "exclude" in the sense of not thinking in a way that complies with approved thinking, rather than a refusal to allow participation.