Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

[Nowyouwillfeel]

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen.

seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own.

instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

it speaks to the 'i want' and 'I deserve' menta.ity thrust down our throats in recent years.
People seem very unwilling to accept that 'no, you can't do/have xyz'. In this case, because it's biologically impossible for 2 men to have a child.(Not homophobic, stating a fact)
Grown-ups are having the equivalent of a tantrum because they want something they cannot have

There is so much judgement on this thread.

People who choose surrogacy generally have no other options available to them of they wish to have a children. It's not commissioning or buying or ordering a baby, especially when it's a know surrogate.

I'm not on favour of commercial surrogacy but in terms of close family or friends who are willing to do it, I think it's one of the most generous things someone can choose to do. I have told admiration for anyone who does it.

There's a lot of people here who could really do with putting themselves in other people's shoes before they risk to judgement.

As as for people who are so ill formed to tell those who cannot conceive naturally to just adopt....have a look a the stats. It's really difficult especially domestic and adopting from abroad also raises further challenges.

Imo, (and I'll probably be told I can't have one given I'm childless!), a child needs live, care, stability and shelter. Most people can have a child but to raise one well requires a lot more.

People on here act like the surrogate was forced into doing something she didn’t want to do.

If it’s a consenting adult who wants to be a surrogate, why is it up to you to say it should be illegal? It doesn’t actually have anything to do with you

You said you saw raw emotion on the woman’s face but she just gave birth? Is she meant to be jumping with joy? Why do you need to see a picture of her holding the baby?

Your points don’t make much sense

@Nobetterthansheoughttobe

Firstly, who is having tantrums?

Secondly, do you have any idea how it feels for a woman to struggle with infertility? To realise that what is an absolute natural instinct for most is not available to you? To know that your body doesn't function same as 99% of other woman? To feel there is something wrong with you? To feel like less of a woman that most? To have it impact relationships? To have relationships breakdowns because of it?

"People seem very willing to accept they can't". Indeed, it is difficult to accept, given it's an option for most women.

To dismiss it as a tantrum or willingness, it's greatly misunderstanding the situation.

If it’s a consenting adult who wants to be a surrogate, why is it up to you to say it should be illegal? It doesn’t actually have anything to do with you

My concern is primarily about the trafficking of babies.
They aren't consenting adults.

Although consenting adults aren't allowed to sell body parts.

Does she know? If not, will she be told? Have you or your sister considered what she may think about this as she gets older? Or what a potential partener may think about it?
Or will everything be rosy in your garden?

People who choose surrogacy generally have no other options available to them of they wish to have a children

Then they’ve exhausted their options then. Assuming adoption and fostering has been exhausted. You can’t just keep going and going until you get what you want.

And again, only considering the needs of the childless adults, not the needs of the child created for such a scenario.

I’ll ask again. Why do we require a judge to remove a child from its mother if she’s considered unfit because of the magnitude of such a decision and the trauma it induces, but in surrogacy the baby is taken from its mother immediately without any consideration of such impacts?

Having a baby for your brother or sister isn’t trafficking

paying someone to carry your baby isn’t trafficking

Coercive control is effectively trafficking and this happens in the two up two down relationship types that seem to be the only acceptable way of conceiving a child on this thread according to some of the posters

There are awful people out there who trafficking humans is a way of making a huge amount of money. It’s vile. But having a baby in an agreement where both sides are ok with it, is ok.

I wouldn’t even expect my sister to pay me. Maybe for some snacks 😁

on a more serious note, right regulation and dissecting of the taboo subject is really important to make sure that women and men are all protected in regards to surrogacy

but a baby rooting on its dad is not heart breaking

and yes two men and also two women are perfectly capable of parenting

who isn’t capable of parenting can also include a man and a woman

sorry I’ve got such bad eyes in the dark I’m struggling to read now but I’ll come back tomorrow to expand if this needs more breaking down but I honestly think the arguments on here are not all valid

what gets posted on instagram is up to the individual really isn’t it? I share photos of my life on instagram. Kids included not sure if that’s ok? I don’t profit from it

profiting from your kids? Is that ok? Maybe sometimes? Now? Not sure BUT you see it opens up a really important subject of gay surrogacy which I wish had less of a stigma attached to it

catch up tomorrow I’m not hiding

!!!

But having a baby in an agreement where both sides are ok with it, is ok.

Two adults agreeing to exchange a child isn't okay just because the two adults say it is.

This isn't a coherent argument. No other form of child protection works like this.

paying someone to carry your baby isn’t trafficking

Why can I buy a newborn but not a 10 year old?

Again, no consideration of the baby’s rights.

It's a persistent theme in posts in support of this: the rights of the adults are all that matters and the rights of the baby are ignored.

I wonder how many of you have actually met a child (or adult) born via surrogacy. A lot of the comments are telling me that you haven’t

Breathtakingly evil

Threads like these where posters are unsubtle in their dog whistle call of homophobia, draw false parallels and generally act obtuse when given easily digestible facts have an agenda or are just unable to grasp the major points.

People are not objects. When you start to put a monetary value on the creation of human beings you make people things.

Taking a baby away from the mother carrier/incubator/babymaker/donor female is provably harmful to the baby.

The whole thing is wide open to corruption and unethical practices.

People, any people who are unable to have children either due to biology or infertility have other avenues available to them if they wish to be parents.

Using women to make babies as human versions of puppy mills or made to order high value commissions is wrong. Women and children become things to be bought and sold.

It becomes a slippery slope.

What happens if the order you placed is not to your satisfaction? What, like has already happened because of COVID, happens if you can't get to your order in a timely fashion and you feel that it no longer meets your requirements i,e is too old? What happens to women and women's rights? What about the babies rights?

No one has the right to buy and sell another human being. We should all be smart enough to know exactly where thinking we can gets us..

What rights of the baby should be considered?

As far as I’m aware, a baby doesn’t consent to be born in ANY situation. There’s situations where babies are taken away from their mum from birth due to drug use or incapability of looking after said child (as they’ve had previous children removed etc). That child did not consent to be born or taken straight away from it’s mother.

Somehow that situation is okay but this one isn’t because it’s ‘renting a body.’ I’m really interested to hear what rights of a baby should be considered?

<i’m off to sleep, not running away. I’ll be back>

No-one is entitled to a baby
It is not an inalienable right to be a parent.
Sometimes, why not just accept your circumstances rather than demanding someone do something to meet your (selfish) wants?

There’s situations where babies are taken away from their mum from birth due to drug use or incapability of looking after said child (as they’ve had previous children removed etc). That child did not consent to be born or taken straight away from it’s mother.

This absolutely true.
To get to that point is a long and quite involved legal process.
Significant harm or the likelihood of significant harm has to be demonstrated.
The child themselves has legal representation to ensure that their best interests are being considered.
A judge will make that decision after considering evidence from a range of sources and reports.
I would feel much more comfortable if that was the threshold that had to be met for all babies to be removed from their mothers.

The tantrum comjent wasn't specific to this post, just the overall me, me, me mentality we are currently with. Few people seem willing to accept that the world is nor tailored around them and their desires.

I appreciate that sometimes, nature denies us what we want, but often there is a reason why.

There’s a girl in my 10 year old’s daughter’s class at school who has two dads. She says her mother is a woman in <insert country where commercial surrogacy occurs> (don’t want to be too outing).

She has never met her but when every school holiday comes up she tells her friends that she might be going to visit her mum, but she doesn’t and hasn’t, according to my daughter.

She seems well loved and well looked after by two attentive dads, but she talks about the mother she doesn’t have.

I'm not 100% either way on surrogacy but I do think the baby's needs have to be centred above all else.

It's not about adults making a decision, it's about the child.

It's illegal to adopt a puppy or kitten too early because they need their mother. It doesn't matter that the owners 'really want' a puppy or kitten, or if they've paid, or if they deserve it.

This is the same.

This is the irony I’ve pointed out! In those scenarios it is NOT ok, but it’s considered such an important decision that a judge makes it. Why are you ignoring this?

The decision to remove babies in those scenarios like drug addiction are incredibly hard. The rights of the baby are considered by a family court judge. What is better or worse for the baby: to stay with a drug addicted mother or to be removed and suffer the trauma of that removal? It is a huge decision. Your point about this just demonstrates how hugely problematic it is. But in surrogacy, those issues are just hand waved away and the baby is just taken. Zero consideration of what is best for the child.

@Brokendaughter I think it's a bit strong to say the surrogate mother is a human trafficker.

We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors but I can imagine there being huge familial pressure on the sister here for example.

I'm sure in some situations it goes beyond family pressure, which most of us know can be a really huge thing, all the way to coercive or abusive means.