Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

[Nowyouwillfeel]

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen.

seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own.

instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Where would that thread be please?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4639236-the-kardashians-have-reached-a-new-low?page=1

Is it this one?

Yes. Thanks

Just here to refer back to a book which was linked to upthread, some pages back. A claim was made that the authors are right wing and it piqued my interest as we hear this so much of this accusation these days I actually bought the book to see for myself.

I’ve only just started reading it arrived earlier this week and tbh I haven’t got to her party politics yet but as the daughter of a lesbian who clearly loves her mother and her mother’s partner she is definitely not homophobic. I’m not suggesting that was implied upthread, just that, so far the book is proving to be very interesting as it looks at centring children’s needs over adult desires and based on the latest posts showing the selfish and naive comments and behaviour from new commissioning parents Brian and Arthur - with Brian appearing more than a little cross that Blake wakes to be fed, how very dare she - as well as the latest Kardashian surrogate-born child, well if we even needed to prioritise children over adults, maybe surrogacy is the prime example and we need a reset.

IMHO I doubt this relationship will last until Blake is 5 at this rate. The women in Dowling’s family will move on, his younger sister especially as she is newly married. She may have her own children. Aoife may find a relationship and have another child or find fulfilment away from her brother. Their mother will age and have other grandchildren. Brian and Arthur will need to get it together, the early days are incredibly tough but one has done the work and the other is woefully underprepared and misinformed. This poor little brand new baby girl, being blamed for sleep deprivation which was caused by her very basic need of feeding. It doesn’t bode well. (I also wonder if Aoife’s labour was considered ‘bad timing’ due to Tara’s wedding and if there was any resentment between the siblings.)

They may divorce like Jeff Lewis and Gage Edwards who were fighting over frozen embryos as potential siblings for surrogate-born daughter Monroe last time I checked.

The authors have a point I think, whichever President they vote for.

I'm from the US, but I don't see surrogacy as a right/left issue here. There are a lot of conservative heterosexual couples who think making a baby to order is peachy keen and would have no problem refusing an abortion for a woman who was paid to be their surrogate. In an adjacent issue, pushing teen girls to give up their babies for adoption is a very conservative take because 'think of all the good Christian families who should be raising the babies rather than this fallen woman'.

Conservatives can just as easily see women as breeders for good white families as Liberals can see women as breeders for good nice gay men. It's the same coin, IMO. If a conservative woman finds surrogacy appalling, I don't think it's due to any kind of conservative political leaning. Liberal women find surrogacy equally appalling. Surrogacy an issue where a lot of women from diverse political backgrounds find common ground.

Completely agree @Delphinium20

I'm not sure, I think his six sisters will carry Brian like they always have and his mother passed away a few years ago. He is a spoiled Mammy's boy used to women doing things for him. I hope baby Blake will be loved and cared for by the women in the family - it lets him off the hook as ever but it's best for her wellbeing.

What a pair of selfish wankers they are. Poor wee baby.

I'm not sure, I think his six sisters will carry Brian like they always have and his mother passed away a few years ago. He is a spoiled Mammy's boy used to women doing things for him. I hope baby Blake will be loved and cared for by the women in the family - it lets him off the hook as ever but it's best for her wellbeing.

But who will be that one attachment figure? Sure she will be loved by lots of people but at this early stage she is already being passed around like a new toy.

I have seen other men who have obtained a baby through surrogacy complain of post natal depression after finding life with a baby hard going.
£5 says we'll see PND being spouted within a month.

My gut says Aoife for some strange reason…

❤️‍🩹

Agree.

Boosting this thread to add that this week Naomi Campbell has announced her second surrogate born child, as has Chrissy Teigan.

Chrissy had a baby in January so has a 5 month old, as well as a 7 year old and a 5 year old. Naomi already has a daughter so both women are already mothers, Chrissy always wanted 4 kids so paid a woman to use her body to achieve this goal (rather than simply accept that she had experienced tragic loss with a miscarriage at 20 weeks, and settle with 3 gorgeous children).

Both are models but no longer work. Naomi is 53 so unless she froze her eggs and got lucky with the thaw she would likely have had a women, or several women, harvest their eggs for her. Also for a fee. Chrissy has a husband and Naomi has a boyfriend so not absolved of responsibility though I'm sure both families will hire even more women to do the childcare and night feeds.

When you have money you can buy eggs and rent wombs and women provide such useful services.

Naomi "it's never too late to have children Campbell?

Except if you aren't mega rich cos she didn't sprog naturally did she?

Even if these two children were from her eggs (not sure either way tbh) she would have likely frozen them when she was much younger and would have paid for the process and the storage costs since.

Any form of IVF is expensive even with NHS support so this message of "it's never to late" should come with the caveat of "if you have the cash".

On this I thought I'd mention Dr Joyce Harper who is a prominent voice in the education of women in how to avoid IVF and in learning about fertility. A counter-argument to the companies offering egg collection and freezing under employee benefit programmes.

A critical thinking tip: ask yourself who benefits? The women who wants to have a family one day or the company who gets her to work longer hours for a longer period.

Do we know if Naomi had her children in USA or UK?
I'm not sure celebrity surrogacy is such a thing in the UK what with our annoying laws that make the birth mother the legal mother until the parental order is sorted, and the agencies' preferred "friendship" model meaning Commissioning parents have to at least pretend to be best friends with the SM until they get their baby.
Or could she have given birth using younger donated eggs?

I've just listened to a webinar with Joyce Harper. Very interesting. She sits in the fence somewhat about surrogacy, mutters about the Handmaid's tale and feeling uncomfortable before cheerfully discussing how gay/single men need a uterus and an egg and then quickly moving on.

She did point out how much egg quality (and quantity) drops off after age 35 so egg freezing , if you are going to do it, needs to be done early 30's as a back up plan.
Also had some HFEA statistics showing IVF for older (40 + iirc) women is MUCH more successful if a donor egg is used.

Again, fence sitting - she writes a book called "Your fertile years" about what women need to know to avoid ending up having IVF but doesn't touch in potential problems relating to egg donation. 🙄

I think you only have to watch those agonising Long Lost Family type shows to see how much it means to people to know/meet their biological parents. So even if they have two loving fathers or two loving mothers, there's always that deep desire to know about the bio ones. Sometimes the situation dictates there is no choice, but to actively choose to deny them that is pretty selfish. I mean the ideal in the situation would be two dads and their mum too - even if she's taking a back seat. Although of course, it's a donor egg, so that's a further layer of complexity for the child to unpick when they're older.
And yes, in reply to a pp, the surrogate (as with any pregnant woman) does exchange DNA with the baby. So, the baby technically has three people's DNA.

It's never too late to pay someone else to provide you with children.

Fixed it for her.

Those pictures are so scary. Never seen a baby used as a prop to gain likes quite like that before.

I'm adopted, I was a baby and I don't remember at all.
I have no problem with my birth Mum having me adopted, I'm very pro choice, which does include adoption of course.
I wish I wasn't an adopted person and it absolutely scars you for life.
Surrogacy is absolutely abhorrent, you are creating babies to do this to them with money changing hands, it exploits women, it exploits babies, it's so many kinds of wrong.

I'm really sorry @JohnsShirt. Even with a fantastic childhood and upbringing as an adopted child you begin with a loss and a far from ideal situation.

I would extend that to the birth mother who would probably ideally prefer not to be pregnant in the first place as to go through pregnancy so the child is born (perhaps if termination isn't available or it's too late) and to have that child born must create untold complicated feelings and memories.

Raising an adopted child isn't easy either, the adoption board, is another source (as well as Long Lost Families) of how personal and wonderful and difficult it is.

Being a child, and then an adult, who is adopted can't be a walk in the park either, I can't begin to imagine the complex emotions and multiple times you find yourself explaining where you come from.

I maintain though that in all that surrogacy isn't the same as adoption (though I understand the natural comparison) - creating a child to be given away isn't the same as finding a family for an existing child - and as you say, surrogacy exploits women.

I saw this yesterday. I encourage those reading this short thread to read to the end of the thread. It details examples of clauses in surrogacy contracts, possibly similar to Alexandra (birth mother of Wren, Teigen's latest child) and the birth mother of Campbell's second child. They may have been asked to sign similar contracts with worse content.

twitter.com/jenniferlahl/status/1674448026637864962?s=46&t=3vhG_KDq77qvuwlnTiE6jg

I agree with this.
The use of donor eggs in surrogacy is clearly an attempt to sever the link between baby and mother and is an abhorrent practice imo.