Page 7 | Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

KentuckyDerbyandJoan · 04/09/2022 02:38

Ella28_ · 04/09/2022 00:13

Why does she need to be seen holding the baby? She is a surrogate. She is not the babies mother. Yes, the left the hospital a day before aoife got discharged but does it matter? She wouldn't breastfeed anyway as a surrogate. I get what you're saying about the baby wanting the breast but babies are perfectly fine and healthy on the bottle. Don't make a sweeping statement like saying surrogacy should be illegal over something so minor. That's just ignorant. Everyone deserves the chance to be parents.

‘so minor’ seriously? 😡

MissingNashville · 04/09/2022 02:42

How entitled do you have to be to commission a baby? I just can not imagine, it’s so selfish. No one is entitled to a baby and these people are only thinking of themselves, that’s not what good parents do so they’re off to a very bad start. All surrogacy should be banned.

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:47

Gay or infertile couples can adopt and have a wonderful family that way.
Adoption can involve a young mum giving up her baby though as she feels she has to, or a mum as an adult feeling they can't go through with bringing up a child themselves but don't feel up for an abortion
Where do you draw the line?

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:48

Don't know why that's only highlighted half the quote! :-)

Justsleep · 04/09/2022 02:49

Ella28_ · 04/09/2022 00:26

You cited breastfeeding as the basis of your argument, hence my referral to breastfeeding specifically. I'm neither ignorant nor do I have any vested interest in this couple. I'm pregnant with my first child at the moment and I will absolutely be breastfeeding and nurturing my baby because I get the need for close contact between the baby and the parents. My point is, this baby will recognise the first people with whom she came in contact at birth and who have been nurturing her since as her caregivers. She is missing out on nothing by not having the person that just so happened to carry her for 9 months not being around (although in this case, aoife is around but as an aunt, not a mother). You saying surrogacy should be illegal is vile. What if you knew a gay couple that wanted a baby? What would you suggest to them?

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You really have no idea. When you’ve had your baby you might realise the connection a mother has to the person who carried it for 9 months. The only person it’s ever known.

and don’t get me started on everyone deserves the chance to be a parent.

Justsleep · 04/09/2022 02:50

*a baby

NotBadConsidering · 04/09/2022 02:51

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:47

Gay or infertile couples can adopt and have a wonderful family that way.
Adoption can involve a young mum giving up her baby though as she feels she has to, or a mum as an adult feeling they can't go through with bringing up a child themselves but don't feel up for an abortion
Where do you draw the line?

One is trying to find a good solution to a shit situation. The other is deliberately creating a shit situation to give entitled people a good solution.

calmlakes · 04/09/2022 02:54

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:47

Gay or infertile couples can adopt and have a wonderful family that way.
Adoption can involve a young mum giving up her baby though as she feels she has to, or a mum as an adult feeling they can't go through with bringing up a child themselves but don't feel up for an abortion
Where do you draw the line?

Adoption is focused on the needs of the child.

Surrogacy is focused on the wants on the adults.

It is a world apart.

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:56

You really have no idea. When you’ve had your baby you might realise the connection a mother has to the person who carried it for 9 months. The only person it’s ever known
Completely agree with you if you've never had a baby you can't possibly imagine what it's like, or what it's going to be like, and how you might feel.
Even if you think you do.
Can you not see though that it's not always as straight forward as that?!
You're ruling out a whole avenue for mums and dads who would make perfectly great parents with that attitude.

Musti · 04/09/2022 02:58

I find it heartbreaking for the baby and the mothers

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:59

The other is deliberately creating a shit situation to give entitled people a good solution.
Ok, fair enough
Where do lesbian's having a family fit into this?
They're surely just as entitled

LemonSwan · 04/09/2022 03:01

Ella28_ · 04/09/2022 02:29

@LemonSwan completely agree on your point about agreeing to be a surrogate. The complexities of that decision are incomprehensible, especially for a woman that hasn't had children and it is definitely open to manipulation as others have said. But in this case, we'll never know what's gone on behind closed doors.

Yes that does trouble me.

I hope it all goes smoothly for her in the coming weeks.

And congratulations to your self! 🥳

marvellousmaple · 04/09/2022 03:03

Surrogacy should be outlawed. Strange how so many of the super rich are unable to carry their own babies. And gay men. - well, you can't have children. End of. You can adopt , be a great uncle, friend, mentor. There are a lot of people in the world who will never get what they want and they don't go around buying people to fulfill that need.

nolongersurprised · 04/09/2022 03:05

You're ruling out a whole avenue for mums and dads who would make perfectly great parents with that attitude

Do you think parenthood is right, or a want?

That “whole avenue”, in actuality, is a woman growing a baby, from her own body then giving that baby away, as a gift. Should babies be created to be given away, like a present?

NotBadConsidering · 04/09/2022 03:06

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:56

You really have no idea. When you’ve had your baby you might realise the connection a mother has to the person who carried it for 9 months. The only person it’s ever known
Completely agree with you if you've never had a baby you can't possibly imagine what it's like, or what it's going to be like, and how you might feel.
Even if you think you do.
Can you not see though that it's not always as straight forward as that?!
You're ruling out a whole avenue for mums and dads who would make perfectly great parents with that attitude.

Every single post of yours on this thread has talked about the wants and desires of the adults. You haven’t once acknowledged the needs of the baby despite me asking it directly of you.

NotBadConsidering · 04/09/2022 03:08

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:59

The other is deliberately creating a shit situation to give entitled people a good solution.
Ok, fair enough
Where do lesbian's having a family fit into this?
They're surely just as entitled

As I pointed out, the baby stays with its mother. So not remotely comparable.

Sidonien · 04/09/2022 03:11

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 02:47

Gay or infertile couples can adopt and have a wonderful family that way.
Adoption can involve a young mum giving up her baby though as she feels she has to, or a mum as an adult feeling they can't go through with bringing up a child themselves but don't feel up for an abortion
Where do you draw the line?

Most women keep their babies these days or have an abortion. The number of children voluntarily given up for adoption in the UK is vanishingly small.

When children are removed from their birth families and adopted, everyone agrees that this is traumatic for the parents and the children, and it is only done as a last resort, after significant attempts to support the family to remain together, and with the wellbeing of the child at the centre of the decision.

Surrogacy is a very early adoption, without any of these considerations for the child or the mother, where most often money changes hands. It is totally unethical.

Confusion101 · 04/09/2022 03:19

I've had a child and would happily carry a child for one of my siblings (or a close friend) if I knew having a child was something they had longed for for years and they couldnt carry their own for whatever reason.

Nobetterthansheoughttobe · 04/09/2022 03:24

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 00:57

I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that
You're projecting your emotions and experiences there though.
Don't get me wrong, I've given birth more than once myself. Could never have given them up.
Why do my experiences mean that that is the way for all women, everywhere though?
Some want to be surrogates, quite happily. I can see why they do it
They might not necessarily want babies of their own, or have had their own, love them so much but think fuck no more but want to give another couple the chance to be parents too
How is that a bad thing, if you're not being forced into it and you want to do it?
We either have control over our own minds and bodies or we don't.

Because at the end of the day, in any scenario, no-one has considered the baby. Its all me, me, me. Yes, even the 'madonna' willing letting her womb out has not considered the baby. It’s I/we want a baby and i/we will have one whatever the means. In this case, as far as we can ascertain fron OPs story, the baby not only has its aunt as rent-a-womb, but has been created using a random woman's egg, so it won't know if it's going to inherit any diseases etc
Whatever the philosophical angle, ethically, because the baby is the pawn, it is shady

wentoschool · 04/09/2022 03:25

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 04/09/2022 01:08

I'm so so so so so shocked

This is so sad

Why?

Is it worse because it's two men?
Oh, there we go

This is my question as to why it's been posted in feminism?

I am shocked that he has had a baby by surrogate, that's all.

Why is it offensive is it because they are gay? I don't find gay adoption or surrogacy offensive.

What I do find offensive is the notion a baby rooting and not being breast fed is basically heart breaking? Or not being with the mum or person who carried them after they were born is heart breaking?

So my son went to SCBU, I was asleep. We didn't do skin to skin, in fact I didn't meet him for I would guess 10 hours. I didn't breast feed him. Is that heart breaking? Does it offend anyones morals of values?

What about women who's partner holds the baby because she's sick when she gives birth and she doesn't hold them first and the baby roots on them? Is that offensive and heart breaking

This was an arrangement and a love filled agreement between family members. I don't know why it's bothering so many people.

My husband had all our babies root on his nose. My babies all rooted on relatives clothes and my friends too. Is that heart breaking?

I am asking these questions to find out what is wrong.

I would carry a baby for my sister any day of my life, I love her to pieces and I think anyone who has the right intentions does have the right to parent, a biological child or not.

calmlakes · 04/09/2022 03:29

I would carry a baby for my sister any day of my life, I love her to pieces and I think anyone who has the right intentions does have the right to parent, a biological child or not.
No one has a right to another person. No matter how good their intentions.
Being a parent is a responsibility and not a right.

wentoschool · 04/09/2022 03:31

It's sad that basically the argument is that they haven't got the right to parent because they are gay and that it's two guys?

I'm sad that it's heartbreaking and whatever other terms used by many basically insinuate breast feeding is the only thing a baby needs (it needs a lot more I can assure you)

It's heartbreaking that these views of blatant xenophobia and racism are being openly shared online and the right to parent being disputed.

Wondering if some of the posters need a slippery when wet sign (if someone has mopped or it's rained) included on the sign, too. It's obvious some cruel, bad, people shouldn't have the right to parent but anyone with good intentions should. Straight or not. Single or not. Religious or not.

I wonder if any of the people here who have disclosed there openly discriminatory views have endured infertility or fertility struggles themselves or had IVF. Is that also wrong??

A baby roots on anything. The child is with it's dad. Please stop arguing otherwise.

LINABE · 04/09/2022 03:33

Nowyouwillfeel · 04/09/2022 00:18

@Ella28_ you are entirely ignorant of the babies needs here. You only care about the entitlement of the couple. It’s nothing to do with breastfeeding or not. She should be holding the baby as the baby needs her and she is all that baby has known for its entire existence. That she is not there for the baby because she is ‘a surrogate’ is exactly why surrogacy should be banned.

Agree 100% This is heartbreaking.

wentoschool · 04/09/2022 03:35

Breasfeeding is amazing I would never argue with it

Babies root even when they aren't feeding or hungry. I am experienced but can't disclose any more here or I might be identifiable and I don't want that

Babies root for comfort, are dummies heart breaking?

calmlakes · 04/09/2022 03:38

It's sad that basically the argument is that they haven't got the right to parent because they are gay and that it's two guys?

My objections to Surrogacy has nothing to do with the the sex or sexual orientation of the people acquiring the baby.

Babies should not be trafficked.
No one has the right to parent. The rights should belong to the child.