Page 29 | Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

Nowyouwillfeel · 2022-09-03T22:30:05+00:00

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen. seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own. https://instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

ThickCutSteakChips · 07/09/2022 19:23

UrsulaPandress · 07/09/2022 18:26

What are they famous for?

Brian Dowling was on Big Brother absolutely years ago (I think he won did he?)

I saw him once at Dublin Airport (totally irrelevant! )

ThickCutSteakChips · 07/09/2022 19:33

ANewCreation · 07/09/2022 10:35

www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/how-mother-child-separation-causes-neurobiological-vulnerability-into-adulthood.html

mariedolfi.com/adoption-resource/relinquishment-trauma-the-forgotten-trauma/

It's only relatively recently that we are starting to recognise the 'primal wound' in the baby that separation from the mother at birth can cause.

So even though children fostered/ adopted at birth may be immediately placed into loving, nurturing families, there can still be trauma due to the break in the mother/baby dyad, which may require lifelong therapeutic parenting.

"Relinquishment trauma is one type of separation trauma. When trauma occurs it can change an individual’s brain chemistry and functioning."
Emotional dysregulation –Children are easily upset and reactive. They stay fearful, angry, sad, or withdrawn due to difficulty recovering from emotionally provoking situations.
Problems with sleeping, eating, elimination, overactivity to sound and touch
Hypervigilant, extreme risk-taking
Problems with goal-directed behaviors
Low self-worth, feeling defective, helplessness
Reactivity with physical or verbal aggression
Poor capacity for self-protection, drawn towards relationships with individuals who repeat the pattern of poor attachment
Difficulty in school, few peer relationships, and turbulent family relationships can arise due specifically due to the trauma response to being relinquished

The adoption system, for all its faults, is focused on the needs of the baby/child first and there is a recognition that this child may well need ongoing additional support, accommodations and may have vulnerabilities throughout life. Adoptive parents access training to develop the therapeutic parenting skills they need.

Surrogacy, in contrast, is all about the 'needs' of the adults and, of necessity, pays zero attention to relinquishment trauma.

Here's Brian Dowling on his sister:
He added: “She's single, she's 32, so you know, so experiencing that whole thing [pregnancy and birth] would be an amazing feeling. But then not having the responsibility.

www.ok.co.uk/lifestyle/mum-and-baby/brian-dowling-praises-sister-surrogate-27115347

He then thanked his sister Aoife for being the couple's surrogate and wrote: "Now, where do we even start with you @effidydowling you are a SAINT to us & we will FOREVER be GRATEFUL to you for the REST OF OUR LIVES. Baby Blake can’t wait for her Aunty Aoife to spoil her" [bolds mine]

It's all just so...flippant. Woman as incubator and supplier of pretty things.

How would a child later be able to express any ambivalence or trauma in this scenario? What therapeutic parenting strategies are actually necessary for children born through surrogacy?

And for those who buy the 'Aoife made her own decision and was the driving force behind the surrogacy' which Dowling frequently refers to - suppose Arthur and Brian decide they would like sibling(s) for baby Blake?

What pressure would Aoife be under then?

This is a great post.

It will be very difficult later on for the child to express any feelings they have about Aoife that don't fit the 'Aoife is your Auntie, we are your parents' narrative that will be pushed on them from birth.

The child may not only suffer from feelings of trauma, attachment, wanting to know where they came from etc, but also the guilt that they don't want to disappoint their parents but voicing these feelings, by spoiling the perfect scenario. This may be the case for a lot of babies born this way?

I know anecdotally, that a child can be given absolutely everything, loved so much, have fabulous parents....and still have a primal need to know where they came from which impacts negatively on many aspects of their life.

NotBadConsidering · 07/09/2022 21:11

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11188981/amp/Brian-Dowlings-sister-Aoife-emotional-reunion-daughter-Blake.html

Oh look, a reality tv star is going to be in a reality tv show about all this 🤨.

Sooo great this will all be commercialised and profit made 😡.

“Tears flowed”

I bet they did 😥

WomaninBoots · 07/09/2022 21:26

NotBadConsidering · 07/09/2022 21:11

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11188981/amp/Brian-Dowlings-sister-Aoife-emotional-reunion-daughter-Blake.html

Oh look, a reality tv star is going to be in a reality tv show about all this 🤨.

Sooo great this will all be commercialised and profit made 😡.

“Tears flowed”

I bet they did 😥

From the article..

However the television host revealed that the journey to fatherhood had been a difficult one after he and his husband found out 'things along the way' that meant it would only be possible for one to be the baby's biological father.

"Things along the way"... basic biology? FFS.

picklemewalnuts · 07/09/2022 21:31

I read that differently, Woman- that one of them wasn't able to be the father for some reason. Not 'only one can actually be the genetic dad', so much as one of them cannot be the dad.

ReneBumsWombats · 07/09/2022 21:32

WomaninBoots · 07/09/2022 21:26

From the article..

However the television host revealed that the journey to fatherhood had been a difficult one after he and his husband found out 'things along the way' that meant it would only be possible for one to be the baby's biological father.

"Things along the way"... basic biology? FFS.

Show quote history

That has to be a misquotation. Surely.

MissingNashville · 07/09/2022 21:35

NotBadConsidering · 07/09/2022 21:11

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11188981/amp/Brian-Dowlings-sister-Aoife-emotional-reunion-daughter-Blake.html

Oh look, a reality tv star is going to be in a reality tv show about all this 🤨.

Sooo great this will all be commercialised and profit made 😡.

“Tears flowed”

I bet they did 😥

Blake LOVES her Aunty Aoife so much & was so content in her arms.

Content? Yes, that will be because baby is with her mum.

SeaSwimming22 · 07/09/2022 21:41

Is someone being a bit thick here? WTAF?

“However the television host revealed that the journey to fatherhood had been a difficult one after he and his husband found out 'things along the way' that meant it would only be possible for one to be the baby's biological father.”

NotBadConsidering · 07/09/2022 21:48

I read it as it’s likely one of them came up positive for a genetic disorder in screening.

ThickCutSteakChips · 07/09/2022 21:50

Surely its not Brian who is the biological dad? Even if its not Aoifes egg being used, it would still be a bit weird to be pregnant with and growing your brothers biological offspring?

How strange that a baby is content in the arms of the woman the baby has been inside for 9 months....

Clymene · 07/09/2022 21:51

I really hope Arthur is the father. There's something very wrong about a woman carrying her brother's baby.

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 07/09/2022 21:57

Clymene · 07/09/2022 21:51

I really hope Arthur is the father. There's something very wrong about a woman carrying her brother's baby.

Tell that to Phoebe Buffay

WomaninBoots · 07/09/2022 21:59

picklemewalnuts · 07/09/2022 21:31

I read that differently, Woman- that one of them wasn't able to be the father for some reason. Not 'only one can actually be the genetic dad', so much as one of them cannot be the dad.

Ah yes, you're probably right. Slightly odd wording and my ASD gets in the way of reading comprehension sometimes! Sorry.

FannyCann · 07/09/2022 22:03

Not 'only one can actually be the genetic dad', so much as one of them cannot be the dad.

Semantics. Did it really need spelling out to them that one of them couldn't be the dad because obey one of them could be the dad? 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Clymene · 07/09/2022 22:09

@ToGanymedeAndTitan - you know that Phoebe isn't a real person right?

CliffsofMohair · 07/09/2022 22:11

ANewCreation · 07/09/2022 10:35

www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/how-mother-child-separation-causes-neurobiological-vulnerability-into-adulthood.html

mariedolfi.com/adoption-resource/relinquishment-trauma-the-forgotten-trauma/

It's only relatively recently that we are starting to recognise the 'primal wound' in the baby that separation from the mother at birth can cause.

So even though children fostered/ adopted at birth may be immediately placed into loving, nurturing families, there can still be trauma due to the break in the mother/baby dyad, which may require lifelong therapeutic parenting.

"Relinquishment trauma is one type of separation trauma. When trauma occurs it can change an individual’s brain chemistry and functioning."
Emotional dysregulation –Children are easily upset and reactive. They stay fearful, angry, sad, or withdrawn due to difficulty recovering from emotionally provoking situations.
Problems with sleeping, eating, elimination, overactivity to sound and touch
Hypervigilant, extreme risk-taking
Problems with goal-directed behaviors
Low self-worth, feeling defective, helplessness
Reactivity with physical or verbal aggression
Poor capacity for self-protection, drawn towards relationships with individuals who repeat the pattern of poor attachment
Difficulty in school, few peer relationships, and turbulent family relationships can arise due specifically due to the trauma response to being relinquished

The adoption system, for all its faults, is focused on the needs of the baby/child first and there is a recognition that this child may well need ongoing additional support, accommodations and may have vulnerabilities throughout life. Adoptive parents access training to develop the therapeutic parenting skills they need.

Surrogacy, in contrast, is all about the 'needs' of the adults and, of necessity, pays zero attention to relinquishment trauma.

Here's Brian Dowling on his sister:
He added: “She's single, she's 32, so you know, so experiencing that whole thing [pregnancy and birth] would be an amazing feeling. But then not having the responsibility.

www.ok.co.uk/lifestyle/mum-and-baby/brian-dowling-praises-sister-surrogate-27115347

He then thanked his sister Aoife for being the couple's surrogate and wrote: "Now, where do we even start with you @effidydowling you are a SAINT to us & we will FOREVER be GRATEFUL to you for the REST OF OUR LIVES. Baby Blake can’t wait for her Aunty Aoife to spoil her" [bolds mine]

It's all just so...flippant. Woman as incubator and supplier of pretty things.

How would a child later be able to express any ambivalence or trauma in this scenario? What therapeutic parenting strategies are actually necessary for children born through surrogacy?

And for those who buy the 'Aoife made her own decision and was the driving force behind the surrogacy' which Dowling frequently refers to - suppose Arthur and Brian decide they would like sibling(s) for baby Blake?

What pressure would Aoife be under then?

Or if she decided not to relinquish wanted to keep the baby? Given the huge publicity how would that even be possible for her?

SeaSwimming22 · 07/09/2022 22:59

WomaninBoots · 07/09/2022 21:59

Ah yes, you're probably right. Slightly odd wording and my ASD gets in the way of reading comprehension sometimes! Sorry.

Show quote history

Ah ok - yes I also read it like that

LovePoppy · 07/09/2022 23:52

DaughterofDawn · 07/09/2022 06:58

In canada surrogacy agencies have been caught pushing surrogates to document as many receipts as possible to try to max out the legal payment to charge the parents to be. No one is certain why but it’s obviously something nefarious. It’s illegal to compensate a surrogate to anything other than medical expenses because basically they don’t want the mothers profiting from it so they will only do it out of the goodness of their hearts and because they really really want to. But there really isn’t anything that clearly defines what a medical expense is. On the flip side parents to be actually harassed a surrogate so much over money that she aborted their fetus. That one was an interesting story. Surrogacy is a bit crazy in canada.

@DaughterofDawn could you link re surrogate having an abortion? I can’t find it

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 08/09/2022 00:07

Clymene · 07/09/2022 22:09

@ToGanymedeAndTitan - you know that Phoebe isn't a real person right?

🤣🤣🤣🤣
No! Really?!
THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION!
😂

MyLandlordIsCreepy · 08/09/2022 00:15

Adds It was fine for a fictional character in a sitcom to do it to the list of reasons why surrogacy is totally unproblematic

GoodWeatherforDucks · 08/09/2022 02:01

In a parallel sci-Fi universe I would like Aiofe and Brian’s roles to be swapped, and then once swapped back afterwards, for him to revisit his own comments and delete them and issue a grovelling apology to her.

This has certainly been an interesting thread, and a thought-provoking one.

it is good to cause people to think beyond the initial “it’s a private matter” and “how lovely!”, and to really realise the wide range of possible problems.

Isn’t there a review of the UK laws surrounding surrogacy coming up soon? I’m sure there are commercial players at the gate, just waiting to have surrogacy made easier.

OhHolyJesus · 08/09/2022 07:53

Brian has previously waxed lyrical about adoption but found it difficult due to being same sex parents. I find this difficult to believe as the US and U.K. where they have lived for years have laws that allow same sex parents so it’s possible that there were other reason why it was ‘difficult’. My understanding is that Adoption screening for suitable parents includes everything from previous alcoholism and mental health problems to being in remissions from cancer. Understandably this is done to centre the child.

I understand that U.K. surrogacy ensures there is a background security check done but all screening for surrogacy has been easily by-passed here as Brian has made a private arrangement with his much younger, single, healthy and fertile, never-been-pregnant-or-given-birth sister who could have been emotionally manipulated or been willing and may have offered from the start. Financial coercion is not the only type of coercion in surrogacy.

Aiofe should have received ‘implications counselling’ and would have done so if they went through an agency. The clinic implanting the embryo should have safeguarded her on this respect but when your paying for a service you expect to get what you pay for. The implications counselling appears to mainly assess whether the surrogate mother will be able to give the child up, it isn’t a form of exploratory therapy designed to look into the reasons why a woman decides to do this. IMO it is designed to ensure the child will be given over to the people who commissioned the baby. This prioritises the commissioning parents and not the child or the mother.

Ireland is considering a domestic law on surrogacy which I expect will follow something similar to the UK’s parental order process but more importantly there is also proposed reform around international surrogacy (or cross-border surrogacy) which is nearly always commercial and Ireland (and U.K.) has strong links to the commercial surrogacy industry in Ukraine. There are 32 recommendations in the report.

www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20220706-joint-committee-on-international-surrogacy-has-published-its-report/

There is some challenge to U.K. law reform which is coming @GoodWeatherforDucks from women’s groups and one wrote to the committee in Ireland.

twitter.com/wombsnotforrent/status/1537031918738448384?s=46&t=MO2EmvQiMUrbUHUpMKew4g

It seems to be that the MP who tabled the reform is a commissioning mother and there was a strong push back against a different MP who asked some questions and said she didn’t agree with surrogacy. It caused a bit of an issue in the committee session and was covered by the papers. I’ll try to find it and come back to share.

Clymene · 08/09/2022 08:02

MyLandlordIsCreepy · 08/09/2022 00:15

Adds It was fine for a fictional character in a sitcom to do it to the list of reasons why surrogacy is totally unproblematic

I'm slightly baffled what point @ToGanymedeAndTitan was trying to make to be honest. Wasn't the reason that Phoebe was acting as a surrogate because her brother was 18 and in a relationship with his teacher who was in her 40s? It was supposed to be weird and absurd

Ravensclawdropout · 08/09/2022 08:21

What about the people who are conceived in these ways, through donors? As teens and adults they express a lot of confusion and the majority don't agree with the procedures and these methods of conception.

The next generation of children should always be prioritized above the desires of adults.

We are Donor Conceived support group survey:

70% agreed or strongly agreed that "The method of my conception sometimes makes me distressed, angry or sad"

And around 75% were against anonymous egg and sperm donation.

www.wearedonorconceived.com/2020-survey-top/2020-we-are-donor-conceived-survey/

Ravensclawdropout · 08/09/2022 08:27

"I live every day knowing that my conception, my existence, was a transaction."

www.wearedonorconceived.com/personal-stories/i-am-not-for-sale-i-am-your-daughter/