Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

[Nowyouwillfeel]

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen.

seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own.

instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Great, I’ve been asking for several pages how there can be informed consent when the woman concerned has never given birth. This does mean someone knows the answer?

If you decided to give someone a kidney, which presumably you've never done before, do you think you are ill-equipped to make that decision on the basis of lack of precedent?

And as I have stated several times on this thread, if you are going to donate a kidney, you have to go through rigorous psychological checks to make sure you are doing so willingly. What equivalent checks exist for surrogacy?

@NotBadConsidering they do have those psychological tests in Ireland though

Really? Can you provide some supporting document to show that? Because that’s good if they do.

In order to protect women from exploitation and coercion, surrogacy frameworks should start with the assumption that all women are being exploited and the onus should be on proving they’re not. If people like Aoife are operating freely, there should be no issue.

But if frameworks start with the assumption that all women are operating freely, inevitably a woman will be exploited or coerced.

So what framework should be in place to protect vulnerable women while also allowing women to choose freely?

You're mad for a framework! This isn't the House of Commons 😂 All the info is on the HSE or Tulsa websites. Do your own research.

*tusla

Sorry, did I miss the link to the law on Irish surrogacy? I know Katie posted the law on adoption but I was hoping to swot up on surrogacy specifically.

I don't claim to know much about surrogacy but I do know that counselling is available. A simple google search shows that. Whether people, particularly in private surrogacy arrangements, choose to avail of that service is their choice. The fact is, we'll never know what these people chose to do.

Of course I am. Because when I ask for one it highlights how little pro-surrogacy advocates have thought about the downsides. It exposes the reality that surrogacy only “succeeds” by sheer dumb luck and wishful thinking. I’ve done my own research and no framework exists that can protect women and children adequately.

So it’s a question of whether you’re willing to accept harm along side “positive” stories or not. I’m not. Are you?

Are you referring to people on this thread that perhaps don't consider this situation such a bad thing as "pro surrogacy advocates"? Because, personally, I find that view a bit extreme. This is just an online forum. Chill out, we're not going to solve anything here. As I've said, I don't know enough about surrogacy to express an opinion either way. My points have been about nothing other than how ridiculously intense, patronising and closed-minded some people on this thread have been. Maybe we could just consider for a minute that these people and the baby are all happy and content without making assumptions.

You’ve just made an assumption: that they’re all happy. Is Aoife? Is the baby after being separated from its mother?

If you support this situation you are pro-surrogacy. That means expect to be challenged on that view. Around the world thousands of women are being exploited and babies are being abandoned in the name of surrogacy, so I don’t think it’s something we should “chill out” over.

Ah I missed your answer. But as Notbad pointed out, there are rigorous checks in place for that kind of situation.
I’m sorry to read that in fact you ‘don’t know much about surrogacy’’ because I was hoping you’d be able to explain more about these checks and balances, but I see you’re sending us off to do our own research. Seems a bit of a strange response when I’ve said I would like to be supportive of surrogacy but righto.

Jesus Christ! You need to calm down. I said maybe we could consider the possibility they're all content. Of course I don't know. None of us do. I feel like you're just looking for an argument now.

@Floisme that's great that you'd like to be supportive of surrogacy but it's not my job to convince you either way. Even I haven't made my own decision about it all.

I’m not looking for an argument in the aggressive sense. I’m looking for a cogent argument that justifies support for this, that’s all. It’s a human rights issue. You expressed support for them, so that invites challenge to your position. If you can’t, that’s fine, I just hope you’ve considered the negatives.

Ireland has no surrogacy laws

Then why fly off the handle at NotbadConsidering who from where I’m sitting, appears perfectly calm and is, I think asking some very reasonable questions?

@NotBadConsidering loads have people, in my opinion, have presented valid arguments in this thread and all you come back with is "but what about the poor mother and baby" and shot them all down without considering their point when others have considered yours. The point of a debate is to listen to and consider others opinions, not just continually shoot them down with the same weak argument. You insinuate that firstly, the woman has been forced without any evidence, and secondly, that the baby will suffer. Now don't get me wrong, I agree that baby COULD suffer from this, but why are we making assumptions when we don't know? She could be absolutely fine and I'm sure in 18 years she'll be on Instagram and you can just ask her herself.

It does have counselling available though. You can't force anyone to have counselling but you can recommend it as is the case in many situations.

I agree that baby COULD suffer from this
Thank you for stating this - it’s one of my big concerns. I assume then that you think it’s worth the risk?

@Floisme she just keeps asking people what "framework" they would put in place. Are we really going to get to the bottom of that on this MN thread? It's a pointless comment that keeps being repeated. This is purely an opinion thread. We're not making laws.

Does it matter what I think? It won't make any difference to surrogacy laws.

Do you think it’s worth the risk?

I didn’t insinuate anything. I asked how do we know? How do we ascertain in this other cases whether there is harm? Who will check?

I pointed out that your insinuation that she hasn’t been coerced is equally speculative.