Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

[Nowyouwillfeel]

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen.

seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own.

instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Nah I'm good. As I said, it was a joke.

My point was that the pp seems to be suggesting that because of our history, we have no issue just giving babies up or undergoing the surrogacy process willy nilly. The 8th was repealed far too late in my opinion, and I completely agree on the women's rights point, but to compare the situation now with the Magdalene laundries is just absurd and offensive.

I'm not comparing. I'm saying there is a thread that runs through.

And would be delighted to have a discussion about misogyny in the U.K. !

There is no regulation of surrogacy in Ireland at all. And there is a push to make it much easier for Irish people to buy babies from overseas.

www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/07/06/oireachtas-to-recommend-system-to-recognise-international-surrogacy/

Not in the uk it cant. Private adoption is illegal here.

They also said Aoife was ‘living her best life’ yesterday. A few days post section I somehow doubt that’s true.

If they think a woman ‘living her best life’ is recovering from major surgery to ‘provide’ two men with a baby, that’s pretty chilling.

I have to say, when I first saw this, I thought it was actually really nice that they have actually referred to Aoife as an actual human, have acknowledged her and that she will be a big part of the baby's life. Rather than publicly berating her for not having a waxed vulva.

Which shows how low the bar is really.....

If there is any situation where I could be in anyway OK with surrogacy, this is it. But that photo with Aoifes face just after the baby is born and the videos of the baby rooting for its mother's breast are quite heartbreaking.

The thing is, presumably the baby will grow up knowing that Aoife gave birth to her, and she is much more than just her 'Auntie'. And you can't expect a child, and then adult, to automatically just be totally chill with that and that not to cause potential issues when they are older.

There's a lot about entitlement on this thread, lots of which seems to forget that a baby is entitled to its mother and that should come first. Puppies aren't allowed to be removed from their mother before 9 weeks ffs!

I know this is so unimportant in the grander scheme of things, but it's all changed and puppies and kittens are now required to stay with their mother for 12 weeks... because of studies into the damage it causes to remove them early.

I'm simultaneously pleased to hear that about pets and even more disheartened for surrogate-born babies!

It looks like it was a difficult birth as well, forceps/instrumental or a c-section in theatre :(

I wonder how many people who are fully supportive of surrogacy know someone born to a surrogate, or adopted at birth? My husband was adopted by a lovely, caring, wealthy couple immediately after birth. His birth mother did not have any addiction issues - she was a young teen - so there's no FAS or anything like that at play. He had the best childhood you could imagine. And even now he has severe abandonment and attachment issues. He has panic attacks regularly, he thinks I'm going to leave him, he self harms, he still sucks his thumb and has a comforter. Yes, I know this might not all be related to the adoption but he thinks it is and to be frank so do I.

Why anyone would deliberately put a child through that is beyond me. And that's not even getting into the ethics of putting a woman's life at risk just so you can get what you want. Pure selfishness.

@fratellia not all c sections are difficult births. I’ve had 3 calm, amazing elective c sections.

I find that quite upsetting. Like millions of mothers, I had a complicated birth and I'm still living with the consequence 20+ years later. I'm trying to imagine how it must feel to go through all that and then be parted from your baby but have to watch everyone, including your own family, rejoicing. I hope Aoife is ok.

I know this is so unimportant in the grander scheme of things, but it's all changed and puppies and kittens are now required to stay with their mother for 12 weeks... because of studies into the damage it causes to remove them early.

Is this true? I hadn't heard about this change. I'm not convinced about the need for puppies or kittens to stay as long as 12 weeks though of course early removal is very harmful, not least because they will still be having most of their nutrition from the mother's milk.

I bred a litter of spaniel puppies, our dog was a wonderful mother to her seven pups. Initially she would only leave them for the shortest time to go to the toilet in the garden. I can't remember the exact timings of what happened when but it wasn't long before she was wanting time away from them and clearly missed her walks (you mustn't walk them in public dog walking areas because of the risk of bringing home infections on muddy paws etc so she was confined to garden for quite a time). As the puppies moved onto solids she wanted less time with them and towards the end we had to keep her separate for much of the day, letting her out through the patio doors rather than going past the puppies in the utility room as she hated them jumping up and trying to latch on. She seemed entirely happy to go back to her old life as the puppies left at eight weeks.

While she was pregnant we had given her a toy puppy which she rejected, but once she had the puppies the toy was included in the litter and she made sure it was there along with the other puppies in the whelping box. She rejected the toy again once she was back to her old life and going out on long walks and being the one dog getting all the attention.

I don't think there is anything to gain in keeping the puppies an extra month.

@Floisme it must be awful. I think it is a terrible thing to do to a young woman, who has never had a baby before, it must be horrendous to go through a difficult birth and then be left feeling like a cast off with all the family focusing on the baby you have provided and your sibling who has the baby.

Of course I think it is a terrible thing to do to any woman, but it's simply not possible to give informed consent if you have never had a baby before.

People who are pro-surrogacy need to explain their framework for when things go badly, right from egg collection through to the child growing up, not when everything goes swimmingly.

If surrogacy is a good thing that should go ahead and be legal, supporters should have no problem providing their ideas for adequate protections for all eventualities, but somehow, they never do.

It’s almost as if they can’t, and just want to close their eyes and pretend it’s all sweetness and rainbows.

Surrogacy is deliberately planning to take a newborn away from its birth mother. Pregnancy, conception and birth still carry so many risks (to mum and potentially baby) and to commercialise it and use it as a 9 month photo opportunity is just

It's disgusting and a million miles away from adoption.

Parenthood isn't a right.

People who are pro-surrogacy need to explain their framework for when things go badly, right from egg collection through to the child growing up, not when everything goes swimmingly.

Totally agree with this, but you're right, they can't

Yes, me too.

my first birth was a nightmare (7 days overdue 3 days of induced labour, only noticing he was breech when I was already 10cm dilated, too big to risk a breech, emergency c section, loads of blood loss, ten day post birth hospital stay) and the thought of coming through all that only to hand the baby over to my (beloved) sibling leaving me on mum’s sofa as my milk came in and the pregnancy hormones flushed out of me fills me with body horror.

Perhaps it’s a bit easier for mums who have already experienced pregnancy and can somewhat anticipate the process and the post natal experience but it seems downright inhumane to inflict that on a woman who has no prior pregnancy and no child of her own.

Poor Aoife. Poor baby.

This is all just so wrong. I used to think sibling surrogacy might be okay in certain circumstances but this is just so appalling. I think it should all be banned, every form of surrogacy.

Er… so it was calm? That does not make it any less major surgery for something that you have little to gain from it. So what exactly would you say about the situation of she had died? Was permanently disabled or if she hemorrhages later? We must remember just because a delivery goes perfectly does not mean there are not issues later down the line. My sister had a “good” delivery and then nearly bled to death a week later. Completely unexpected. It happened very fast and she still has nightmares about it 3 years later.

Nobody did anything to this woman that she didn’t agree to
The only difference I would say is that not having experienced giving birth before would mean that she wasn’t prepared in what it would be like,

I think those that go onto surrogacy I think have a certain mindset and understanding. They are doing something that will mean so much for another couple.
They can’t imagine not having children of their own and want to help others to have what they have.

I don’t think you can ban surrogacy in the U.K. At least by keeping it then the rules and regulations can be adhered to.

Banning it and people who want children but can’t have them will just go abroad.

Whichwhatnow thank you for posting that, I hope your DP is doing okay.

I am an adopter. My DC was held hostage by a perpetrator with a weapon, at 5 weeks old. My other DC aged 4 was present during the incident, and remembers all the frightening things which happened. That DC has processed and come to terms with the trauma, my younger of course has no conscious memory of it, can't access the trauma despite a lot more therapy than the elder had, and is affected by it now more 10 years after the event. Do not underestimate the impact of pre-verbal trauma, even on tiny babies.

I find posters comparing surrogacy (deliberately creating a child knowing you will cause that child trauma), to adoption, (giving already-here children a family when they cannot stay in their birth family for their own safety) crass at best. Adoption is only permitted when nothing else will do for the child. Surrogacy is about meeting the wants of adults while disregarding the effect on the child. They are not equivalent.

But as you know, @Louise0701, even a calm, planned c-section carries all the risks of major surgery, and can have knock-on effects for the baby - and each section involves an incision to the uterus which leaves a scar, and that scar can rupture in a subsequent pregnancy. Plus it makes it far more likely that any subsequent births will be via c-section, because of the risk of the scar rupturing during labour.

So if this baby was born by section, Aoife may find it limits the number of children she can have in the future, and may mean she can’t deliver vaginally. And this is the price these men have made her pay, so they get a baby - they haven’t had to risk their health, maybe have major abdominal surgery, and risk their future ability to have children. All that is on Aoife, while they skip merrily off with their baby.