Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

[Nowyouwillfeel]

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen.

seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own.

instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

@Ella28_ adoption of the sort you are describing is vanishingly rare.

@picklemewalnuts It seems potentially confusing to have your identity fragmented in that way. Thanks for your explanation.

Agreed. But it exists.

In the UK private adoption really doesn't exist.
The only case I know of where a women gave her baby up for adoption voluntarily she actually changed her mind about four months into the foster to adopt process.
That process still involved social workers and the legal processes.

And many of the kids still suffer long term symptoms of trauma, because simply being separated from your mum at birth is a form of trauma.

This is completely and utterly untrue. You cannot give your baby away to someone you choose in the U.K. The authorities are always involved, even in kinship adoption.

Perhaps before your baby is born, you could do some reading up in safeguarding and protecting the rights of children?

The commmericialisation of woman's bodies and babies is a money spinner for some very unscruplus people.

We should exspect a lot of astroturfed pushback on public questioning of this business modle.

Just sayin...

Just to clarify (in case it's not obvious!) I'm no expert! That's my laywoman's understanding of it.

Pregnancy is even more amazing than it seems at first sight. We underestimate it at our peril.

@Clymene of course the authorities and courts are involved. That goes without saying. But the birth mother choosing to take this option does happen (albeit rarely).

I don't think mentioning my baby in your response was necessary. This is supposed to be a healthy debate and different opinions should be welcome. Really no need to get personal.

On that note, I have genuinely found this thread and the different viewpoints really interesting. Surrogacy is not something I've thought too much about before so it has been interesting to discuss. But I'm out now ✌🏻

@Ella28_ - I think you are confusing “last resort” and “last minute”. A mother who plans to give her baby up for adoption is going to have thought long and hard about whether she could keep the baby before deciding as a last resort that she cannot cope with raising the child or cannot give it the life it deserves, so will give the baby up for adoption.

If a mum who has previously had babies removed from her by Social Services, gets pregnant again, she and the Social Workers working with her will look carefully at her circumstances, to see if they have changed, and if she might be able, with support, to raise this baby, before deciding as a last resort to remove the baby.

In both these cases, the decision may be taken fairly early in the pregnancy, so it isn’t a last minute decision, and is a planned one - but is still the last resort.

Saying a decision is the last resort does not mean it has to be taken at the last minute.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius I agree. I didn't say it wasn't a last resort for the woman. Just that it happens.

She is not the baby's mother? What an outrageous lie and insult. Is Brian the mother then or Arthur? Cop on ffs.

Everyone deserves the chance to be a parent ? Again there are no rights in nature. Everyone can adopt. I expect this child be be grand if only because the family are wealthy. There is just something entitled and selfish about this.

A last resort counts as an emergency as I'm concerned and therefore does not stand up to comparison with a planned and intentional surrogacy.

@Ella28_ - I brought it up because you've mentioned it repeatedly in the thread. If you don't think your pregnancy is relevant, then you shouldn't have talked about it.

In any event, you are wrong. People cannot adopt a baby before it's been born. They can apply to foster the baby and if approved by the local authority can do that.

This is the law in the U.K. to apply to adopt in the U.K. if someone is not already a registered foster carer or step parent to the child:

The child must have had his home with the applicant or, in the case of an application by a couple, with one or both of them for not less than three years (whether continuous or not) during the period of five years preceding the application.

So no, you're wrong.

And many of us don’t.

unless you’d like to tell me that you know more about me than I do?

In Ireland, where I believe this couple live so we should really be talking about Irish law here, a birth mother can be matched with adoptive parents before birth. Once the born is born, if the birth mother chooses to go ahead, the adoptive parents can file to complete the application. In the meantime, the mother can choose to bring the baby home and care for it or she can choose to place it in foster care immediately, meaning that the mother and baby would be separated from birth as is the case here. Not saying I agree with it and It's rare but it does happen.

I don't think someone mentioning a pregnancy gives you the right to insult them and their baby but maybe that's just me. So many people being nasty to each other on this thread!

That should read "once the baby is born" obviously

Also should have said complete the application within 6 months. I need to proof read my posts!

I haven't insulted her baby. I've said I believe that she needs to get a better understanding of safeguarding.

I stand by that. There's a lot of things I said before I became a parent that I cringe about when I look back on them.

But yes, good point about this being about the law in a country which has a long and shameful history of taking babies away from their mothers

@Clymene bit of a condescending comment to make, don't you think? I'm sure pp and her baby will be grand. Chill out.

I assume you're referring to the Magdalene laundries there which was absolutely shameful I completely agree. But I don't think you can compare this situation to that and as an Irish person, I think to do so is quite offensive given that that's such a sensitive topic in this country.

Can someone point me to an explanation on Irish surrogacy laws please? I’ve done some reading on UK law but it seems from news stories (eg the Ukraine ones) that surrogacy is either legally easier there or at least more socially acceptable?

would be useful to have an overview for future discussions.

also, are ours UK wide or varied between the 4 nations?

sorry to be lazy and not Google myself but I can’t be dealing with wading through all the pro surrogacy guff and then getting ads asking me to be an egg donor for the next week…

No worries - www2.hse.ie/services/continued-pregnancy-supports/adoption.html

I'm not sure but I would imagine different rules apply across the 4 UK nations.

I'm not going to chill out about surrogacy, no.

And yes I do think the Magdalene laundries are relevant. The last one didn't close until 1996. Ireland has a long deeply embedded cultural misogyny. Abortion laws were repealed way after homosexuality was decriminalised and same sex marriage laws.

Rights for women are way behind rights for gay men.

And the media celebration of the commissioning couple getting the baby they paid for out of Ukraine and not giving a toss about the fate of the baby's mother made me sick to my core.

I wasn't suggesting you chill out about surrogacy. I said chill out about the pp and her baby.

Way to offend an entire nation there! Good going👌 Shall we talk about Britain's history?? Haha (That's a joke, don't @me)