Do you talk about being GC in real life?

[Waiting4baby2]

I feel like Im going mad. I am a left leaning person, only ever read bbc and the guardian news. Generally a ‘live and let live’ sort of person who cares about equality.
I was completely in the dark about policy changes which have taken/ are taking place to put gender ID above sex/ the silencing of women and frankly the child abuse that has been taking place through affirmative care.
Now I’ve started properly looking into it I’m completely in shock at how this has been allowed to happen to women’s rights. Im also gobsmacked at the way the guardian and bbc have been so biased in the matter and failing to air any gender critical views.
I feel like now I’m aware of what’s going on I want my friends and family, particularly female members to know. However, it’s such a layered story to get across and when I have gently mentioned anything I basically get ‘well it’s none of my business, it doesn’t affect me how people want to live’ or ‘I don’t know much about it’ but are clearly disapproving. Just a question is it worth bringing some ideas to light for them or will they get there themselves? I’m feeling quite powerless but know how important this is so in a way feel duty bound to air the alternative view. What can I do?!

Hi Waiting, this sounds very much like me about 6 months ago - and then you find out some of what is actually happening, and you get very, very angry!

I have spoken about it to some of my friends, and been surprised by how GC some of them are, and I hadn’t realised. Also surprised by how angrily some respond - often those employed by big organisations, and obviously been through the training. They are often at the no-debate stage, so further discussion not really an option ( how has that happened?!)

No real advice on how to approach, but I know it’s worth taking the first step, but gently, you are definitely not alone! Hopefully someone with more experience will be along.

Ì discuss with my DC, 22 and 23 who are pretty TWAW, I listen to what they say and then gently raise a query that relates, I.e. 'if TW use women's toilets what support is offered to women whose religion prevents them from using those toilets because of the presence of people who are physiologically men?'
We've always tended to discuss and debate, I do find this topic is the only one where the discussion isn't as free as any other, suffering to do with initial 'no debate' being translated by DC as 'shouldn't debate'.
I do talk to 2 colleagues at work, as feminists we discuss possible infringements on our own rights and how we fought against gender stereotypes in the past.
I also discuss it with my husband who thinks the works gone mad but as an ex police officer is all too aware of VAWG by males.

I totally relate Waiting!
I have been quietly exploring all of this on my own for about 5 years now and recently joining Mumsnet has been part of that journey.
It started as an instinctive response of confusion and doubt, and that sense of fear about opening up the discussion, even with those closest to me, spurred me on to look more deeply into it.
I am a non-conformist/questioner by nature, and that very fear alerted me to the fact that something psychologically and culturally unhealthy was at play.

The more I have researched (from all sides), the more confident I have become in my stance/trusting my intuition and have even managed to get my initially 'be kind/live and let live' DH to shift his perspective to a large degree.

I've started to discuss it with some friends, but I still feel that hesitance- particularly professionally.
I think there has been a growing awareness and some shift in the media at large which feels hopeful. I find the Forstater and Bailey rulings in GC beliefs have added greatly to my confidence too.
I think it's just the weirdness of being in a position, for the first time, as a 50 something, of going against the grain of something considered to be a civil rights movement. Freaked me out and led to lots of self examination. I'm grateful for this though, as I feel I finally discovered feminism at the ripe old age of 50!

I first voiced my concerns in a book group discussion about child transition about 4 years ago with a small group of very close friends. It was the uncomfortable social experience I have ever had and totally freaked me out! It is so hard, especially as a woman, to feel like an outlier. I know that in that situation now, my thoughts would be much better formed and I could back them up with suitable research/changes of approach in other countries, Cass report etc.

Things have moved a long way, and I think it is extremely important to ride the current tide and keep talking. Talking 1:1 can be easier at first and gather your evidence/data to give you confidence in backing your opinions.

It doesn't matter if people don't agree, it's just important to go against that sense of 'i can't say that'.
There's also lots of great resources now to send in to people.

You are not alone. Lots of us, at various stages of realisation, knowledge and confidence on here and elsewhere.
MN us a goldmine!

The answer is yes. The reason it has been able to take such a hold is the willingness of many people to turn a blind eye to the harms of the ideology. Those who haven't have lost a lot of social currency but kept their ability to say a spade is a spade, which is a freedom worth having. I suppose it depends on whether one values one's ability not to have to lie over a quiet and easier life. I know it doesn't just affect the individual if one speaks up, but family and friends too, so not easy. I hugely respect those who do speak. I have lost of lot of respect for many of my friends who can't seem to grasp the issues or seem to shrug things off and go along.

You're not going mad, it is a huge cultural shift in a short space of time ( genderology) and it is just sexism rebranded, for me. The fact that your DH is thinking about it all clearly is a big plus, I've seen a few posts on here where not having partners on the same page has caused terrible turmoil at home. I would really struggle with that too. For everyone else, I wouldn't waste your breath on people unable to think critically about gender vs sex. They will be swayed only by groupthink, sadly for them. It's great when you do find those friends who get it though!

I'm surprised that to have spoken at length with people who are acquaintances but I don't bring it up often with people I know well. It seems like, no matter how well you know someone, when the floodgates open they are so glad to have someone who agrees. I've been really surprised how many people are bottling up strong feelings about this.

It usually starts with girls sport and people at our school being pissed off about it being gender neutral to accommodate the non binary kids (spoiler alert - girls missed out). However, it seems loads of us know all about Lia Thomas etc.

It's so important to speak out if it's safe to do so. The progress that's been made in removing the rights of other groups only happened because of #nodebate / bullying of those daring to speak up. I completely avoid tedious discussions about toilets and focus on children, safeguarding, social contagion, impact on other groups and sport. There's now so much evidence that people look very odd shouting bigot when you speak about women's safety in rugby or fairness in swimming and cycling.
Fortunately I've encountered very little dismissal - except from the odd political canvasser on the doorstep seeking my vote oddly enough The fact that these discussions are now mainstream with the mainstream press highlighting the issues and even the BBC (sometimes) tipping its toes into the waters of balanced reporting about trans issues makes it much easier.

Yes, all the time, to all sorts of people. And everyone I've spoken to about it agrees with me, I've enlightened a lot of people in the last 5 or 6 years. A few have said "but we're not supposed to say that nowadays" etc, but I always say exactly what I think; very forcefully 😂

Only with my dh

Yes. Everywhere!

NEVER on LinkedIn or FB or at work

Sadly, same.
I got in the most almighty level of shit, lost a few friends and was branded a Terf-y bigot on Facebook.
Do not go there.

Not really.

When I do bring it up, I'm treated as a bigot, assumed that it's the same as homophobia, which people are desperate to avoid.

And when you briefly try to allude to the idea that even if trans people are fine, you can't tell the difference between them and predators - I'm met with scepticism and "that would be extremely rare" attitudes. I don't have to examples and statistics to hand enough to be able to prove them wrong. Even suggesting it makes people think I'm a bit homophobic/bigoted/conservative and judging a group unfairly.

The link to LGB right has really benefitted trans acceptance!!

I think also most people still assume that it's full surgery transition for a rare number of people. Or they do believe that there is some internal essence that can be felt as male or female, or that maybe we just don't know enough.

And I am concerned about being seen as bigoted and conservative for all kinds of reasons to do with work and social circumstances, so I don't push it.

I have aired with a few people and most also identify as GC but hadn’t realised it.

I sympathise and have been thinking along similar lines.

I've made the odd comment on FB news posts so presumably some friends have seen it and haven't (to my knowledge!) cut me off. Although recently a friend did jump in and pull me up on a comment I made on an article about the rugby decision. It was done very politely - from the tone, I think he saw me as lacking knowledge and therefore educatable, rather than as a fully fledged bigot.

Like you OP it feels very disconcerting to be on the opposite side to people I've agreed with and shared lefty/lib views with all my life. I'm toying with posting something on social media for GC coming out day which I believe is sometime around the autumn, just to at least start a discussion.

I swing between "just stay quiet irl and continue writing to MPs/spreading awareness anonymously online, it doesn't benefit anyone to cause rifts among my friends/family" and "children are being abused and women's rights trampled on, how can you not at least do the bare minimum".

Yes, I do. Have been doing so for a few years. I talk/write to family, friends, MPs, and councillors.

I have spoken to several people in real life, but initially had to tread quite carefully and gauge the response. Thankfully I have mostly been met with agreement and similar disbelief about the ridiculousness of it all. However, it's usually on a one to one basis, or in small groups. I would be hesitant to speak very publicly about it - I suppose like many others, I am afraid of being shouted down as hateful and bigoted.

Although have contributed financially to many online crowdfunders, and have signed petitions and send emails to politicians. So at least it feels like I'm doing something.

I do think there will come a tipping point, where enough people push back and it tips the balance, because I believe we are the silent majority, but I fear that it will take much more harm being done to women and girls before that happens. It has completely shaken my belief in many institutions, the fact that lies can be peddled and emotional manipulation used to further an agenda that does real harm to women, and so many people in positions of power, who should know better just turn away or don't care.

I don’t frame it as GC I talk about it more in terms of material reality and single sex spaces and language. I’ve been lucky in that mostly everyone either agrees, and/or has been unaware. Had a friend/colleague and a sister who are social justice warrior types and even though we didn’t agree on everything they did see my point and didn’t label me a bigot. I mean it’s hard to argue against the truth!

Am not a leftie or rightie

no one I know believes in the gender stuff especially teenagers. They mock it tbh

childrens safeguarding mos5 important

I have the same views as JKR I think

speak about at work if it’s brought up.

Yes, I literally exploded in a two week epiphany in around January. Like you I'm a leftie who had no idea of the scale of these issues.

I talk about this a lot to my immediate family where it's very safe to do so. I've nailed my colours to the mast with a couple of good friends and been GC with a couple of people in my Church, I'd so love to join a woman's group but it's hard to do so irl.

I intend to keep talking and this board is brilliant for information and conversation points, I'm a sahm so I have no job to risk (or get frustrated in).

Hold your ground, @Realityisreal Mine started off this way but when I refused to back down or have them tell me what a woman is, they started to shift. They're pretty terfy now, though they still err on the side of being kind around friends.

I do think Lia Thomas has done great things for GC marketing as Lia is so obviously a man. The total unfairness of Lia competing as a woman is impossible to miss.

Yes I talk to some people in real life and have been brave enough to gently challenge some people who have misunderstood what GC means.

Have you thought of joining your local Women’s Rights Network? It helps to be able to meet and discuss these issues with likeminded women. Stop you feeling like you’re going insane

Yes I have had mostly positive responses, apart from a relative who is very left leaning who didn't seem impressed with my thinking.
I have seen since having my eyes open how much he parrots alot of the same crap that TRAs come out with.
He has since not challenged me when the subject arises and from what he has said, I think the penny has dropped. (Although he's one of those people who find it hard to admit they could have been wrong, so nevermind.)

I used to regard myself as left leaning but now I don't regard myself as anything.
I have realised alot how the media has hidden so much and portrayed really important issues completely different to how they play out or just ignored it altogether.
I realised that I was closing my eyes and ears to people who before I was made to think they shouldn't be listened to and instead have listened to what they have to say instead of writing them off like I used to.

It's so strange like an epiphany.
I feel like I have had my eyes truly opened.