Do you talk about being GC in real life?

[Waiting4baby2]

I feel like Im going mad. I am a left leaning person, only ever read bbc and the guardian news. Generally a ‘live and let live’ sort of person who cares about equality.
I was completely in the dark about policy changes which have taken/ are taking place to put gender ID above sex/ the silencing of women and frankly the child abuse that has been taking place through affirmative care.
Now I’ve started properly looking into it I’m completely in shock at how this has been allowed to happen to women’s rights. Im also gobsmacked at the way the guardian and bbc have been so biased in the matter and failing to air any gender critical views.
I feel like now I’m aware of what’s going on I want my friends and family, particularly female members to know. However, it’s such a layered story to get across and when I have gently mentioned anything I basically get ‘well it’s none of my business, it doesn’t affect me how people want to live’ or ‘I don’t know much about it’ but are clearly disapproving. Just a question is it worth bringing some ideas to light for them or will they get there themselves? I’m feeling quite powerless but know how important this is so in a way feel duty bound to air the alternative view. What can I do?!

What would you lose your job for ?

Lol, we are investigating ' woman - adult human female' as hate crime. Bosses are tying themselves up in knots.

A few years back i raised concerns about some of our policies with a manager i felt safe with and the discussion didn't go well. She's since made comments that may indicate a change in perspective towards GC but it feels very unsafe to try to raise it again. I speak with full disclosure with one other colleague. A few of my younger colleagues have talked with me in a considerate way about our different views. I've been honest with them but not engaged in debate. I worry a lot about my job. Selfishly i want the retirement I've worked so long for. I'm afraid to go to GC talks and public meetings in case my work find out.

We watched Ricky Gervais the whole programme not just the "ladies lose the cock" segment. Now I'm not keen on him but a friend said to watch all of it with my ears open. OH then mentioned we had seen it at a BBQ wow one woman went up like a roman candle. She hadn't watching it but knew it was disgusting. Well there's no debate possible there then

Watch the BBC but also watch GB news for balance and practice some critical thinking. They're both extreme in their own way.

If you read the Guardian I'm not sure what other paper to read for balance.

A bit. But only with certain people. I find women of my own age or older are most open to these conversations. Men don't care. Younger women are terrified to break rank.

By the by, but I hate GC as a label. I don't give a fuck about gender or how people want to express it. I am only interested in sex being given primacy in certain situations and sex based rights maintained.

If you read the Guardian I'm not sure what other paper to read for balance.

I think the Times/Telegraph. Ideally both.

The guardian only usefool for recipes.

🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♀️ useful

But what would they do to you. How can they sack you or lose your pension. How does that work ?

But what would they do to you. How can they sack you or lose your pension. How does that work ?

Look what happened to Maya Forstater

It’s difficult when you’re a left-leaning, vehemently pro-LGB supporting feminist.

I have one good friend I talk about this freely with, and a few others perhaps not so vehemently.

DH completely agrees. He is on his work’s inclusion and diversity group - and every time someone raises anything about gender, he probes and probes until he gets to whether they’re discussing gender, or whether they mean sex.

And if they’re talking about gender, he pushes until there is an open discussion about whether the issue is actually about - or will adequacy address - sex equality and equity.

DH completely agrees. He is on his work’s inclusion and diversity group - and every time someone raises anything about gender, he probes and probes until he gets to whether they’re discussing gender, or whether they mean sex

Thats good to hear

Yes, I've been openly GC since before I knew it was a thing. Probably offended a few people without realising it as well as the ones I know about, but when I weighed it up I decided I'd rather lose people from my social circle than let anyone suspect me of being a doctor who believes that people can change sex, a feminist who thinks we should open women's spaces to self-selected males, or a sports fan who's happy to see female athletes she admires being obliged to smile sweetly when shoved off the podium by a bloke.

As others have said, there are a lot of other people out there who don't subscribe to the gender cult.

FWR is a tremendous resource.

This from a man, who a year ago didn’t even think there was any difference between the two - ‘it’s just a different word for the same thing’.

He now very much gets how different they actually are.

Not RTFT yet, but totally agree with you OP. I am in the same position, a lifelong leftie, was a labour party member, tolerant, with a live and let live attitude, but am absolutely GC.
I do have lots of friends who I talk face to face with who have the same views, but I also have a few good friends who are very much TWAW, and for that reason I do not post anything on my social media (apart from here) about my views.

And I think many, many people are similar!

By the by, but I hate GC as a label. I don't give a fuck about gender or how people want to express it. I am only interested in sex being given primacy in certain situations and sex based rights maintained.

Oh, same. I'm averse to most labels and don't generally find them helpful.

I would never out myself at work.

Most people have pronouns in their signature - including some who I know to be intelligent, analytical, critical thinkers, so it really amazes me.

I’m not in the UK, and we are way behind you here, to be fair (think weight-lifters at the Olympics and a Minister for Women who‘a very much TWAW).

I get all my arsenal from MN FWR.

But maya stood up for it. She didn’t buckle

NZ cooler no doubt.

I work as contractor in public service. No one has the pronouns in their emails and it’s never talked about at work and if it was I would say what I thought

Not sure how to reply directly?! But on the labels thing I used GC as that’s how it’s now described as a ‘protected belief’ so in a work context if your views were ever questioned that label is useful.
I have often wondered about the label ‘terf’ though. It seems bizarre that actually including trans women in feminism wouldn’t be seen as ‘radical’ but excluding them is?! But don’t know enough about radical feminism itself. As a pp suggested I am already reading the Helen Joyce book which is fantastic and will read the other one you suggest!

A couple of years ago OH was clueless with help from me he's taken a lot on board. He's now aware and will stand his ground. It helps that he's always been his own boss no worries about getting the sack I think

I am very careful these days having been binned of several chat forums (Facebook archers appreciation group ffs!)

When I first became aware of the fact that many people actually said and thought that TWAW I was so incredulous, I brought it up with people.

Once, I was a little tipsy at an informal work get together and a male colleague got cold and stiff when I voiced the opinion that TWANW. I was surprised but didn’t say any more. I’ve since learned to be more careful.

A lot of my young colleagues are all about intersectionality, some bang on about it to a tedious degree but now I just smile condescendingly at them and keep my yap shut.

I have however discussed it at length with an older male colleague who says it’s just a new way of bullying women. Another male colleague also rolls his eyes at the whole thing.

One of my best friends broadly thinks the same as me though we don’t agree on everything, even then we had to do the dance of trying to gently probe each other on our views before venting.

As for family, my immediate family are all vociferous TWAW. One of my brothers calls himself non-binary femme and is an insufferable tool in general. I’ve blocked him on social media because he’s just too much. He was a prat before all of this so it’s just another SJW crusade as far as I can see. He’s a white, educated middle aged man who is identifying in to oppression and it’s tragic.

I think the other members of my family and I have come to a mutual understanding not to discuss the topic and agree to disagree. I keep hoping my mum, who brought me up to be feminist, will come around but so far she is inexplicably being kind. That’s the saddest thing for me, that we don’t see eye to eye on this.

I don’t think my OH fully understands the implications and desperately wants to find a middle ground but I think I’m helping him realise there isn’t one for certain situations. Still an eye opener how little he truly understands about the shit most women go through in life. He does however put up with my rants on the subject.

Just bear in mind that the Guardian and the BBC are now considered transphobic by extremists. I've gone on reading both, and have never watched GB News, nor do I intend to. Provocateurs (can't call them commentators) who latch on to this issue to distract from other problems aren't great either. I think it's important to know what's mainstream- then I know that a lot of comments from TRAs are completely outdated - the classic one being 'you've probably never met a trans person' - come on, it's 2022 and I'm the mother of a teenager, I know 3 female teenagers saving for mastectomy and at least one is on testosterone, 2 older male transitioners and a nonbinary male, plus a sheaf at work. Yes I have met trans people and yes it does affect me, I'm allowed to have views about the place and definition of women.

Yes, I’d agree with this.

I wouldn’t label myself as GC, just that I think recognising a person’s sex is sometimes extremely important and necessary.

It's sad reading how many of us are having to keep quiet about all this, for fear of the fallout.
Every now and then I get a headache thinking about how it came to this, how in many supposedly open, liberal, democratic, evolved societies so many people are terrified to speak the truth. The truth that EVERYBODY KNOWS deep down.
Disagreement is not hatred. The truth is not bigoted.
We aren't the ones who came up with some radical shit that doesn't make sense. Why are we having to tiptoe around nonsense and pretend to appease other people? It's all some big social experiment gone crazy.

And underneath it all is blatant contempt for women. That's how it started, and that's how it endures. It's why men can casually not give a shit, and why it got so far so quickly. Because it disadvantages women and girls, and serves the needs (wants) of a small group of men.