Do you talk about being GC in real life?

[Waiting4baby2]

I feel like Im going mad. I am a left leaning person, only ever read bbc and the guardian news. Generally a ‘live and let live’ sort of person who cares about equality.
I was completely in the dark about policy changes which have taken/ are taking place to put gender ID above sex/ the silencing of women and frankly the child abuse that has been taking place through affirmative care.
Now I’ve started properly looking into it I’m completely in shock at how this has been allowed to happen to women’s rights. Im also gobsmacked at the way the guardian and bbc have been so biased in the matter and failing to air any gender critical views.
I feel like now I’m aware of what’s going on I want my friends and family, particularly female members to know. However, it’s such a layered story to get across and when I have gently mentioned anything I basically get ‘well it’s none of my business, it doesn’t affect me how people want to live’ or ‘I don’t know much about it’ but are clearly disapproving. Just a question is it worth bringing some ideas to light for them or will they get there themselves? I’m feeling quite powerless but know how important this is so in a way feel duty bound to air the alternative view. What can I do?!

Most of the feminists I knew back in the 70s , 80s were socialists like Sheila Rowbotham. Liberal feminists would be what Greer calls Equality feminists? Change a few laws etc.

Back then Radfem had different connotations like Separatism and Political Lesbianism. But I suppose you don't need to be any of the above to see that gender ideology is an assault on women's rights.

"Most of the LGB community absolutely know that Male and Female is about your physical sexed body, not your feelings."

Most the LGB community proudly support trans rights 😍

Most of the LGB community absolutely know that Male and Female is about your physical sexed body, not your feelings.

Most the LGB community proudly support trans rights

There's not necessarily any opposition in those statements.

I support trans people's rights to live, dress, present as they like, while respecting the sex based rights of themselves and others.

Sorry if the truth hurts but outside of Mumsnet most people do not like bigotry.

Where is the bigotry you see here?

"your vilification of Allison Bailey and Baroness Nicholson?"

I looked up a member of the House of Lords' voting record and saw that she had repeatedly voted against LGBT rights and made homophobic remarks. All I can say is if you doesn't want to be treated as a homophobe, maybe she shouldn't vote and talk like one.

"Back then Radfem had different connotations like Separatism and Political Lesbianism."

I have a lot of sympathy. I cannot understand why a woman would voluntary date a man but that is just my humble opinion.

Anyway ignoring the obvious merailing by someone who apparently hates us and all we stand for and yet can’t keep away

I am going to try & talk about it more if I feel it’s ok to do so because keeping quiet has played into TRA hands

"Anyway ignoring the obvious merailing by someone who apparently hates us and all we stand for and yet can’t keep away"

I don't hate people but I do hate transphobia. If that's what you stand for then I feel sorry for you.

Why was I deleted for calling out bad faith posters who are intent on derailing the discussion? Yet MN lets their ridiculous lies stand.

Trollhunting isn't allowed. Report and scroll on by - respond the actual discussion, not the one that anyone is having to change people's words to make it about.

I think this demonstrates the need to talk honestly. Hearach is in my opinion very transphobic, but I prefer to discuss what's actually being posted rather than try to categorise posters into nebulous descriptions.

I got modded for saying that I had had my vocal doubts since I was 20, and met a very famous person beginning with the first letter of the alphabet.

I don't hate people either, and also hate transphobia. I would like trans people to have all the rights others of their sex class do, and I do not want them to be discriminated against or treated badly in any other way compared to others of that sex class.

I just don't think transwomen should be in women's spaces, and they clearly are not women. I don't wish anything bad towards them; I want them to feel comfortable presenting however they wish; and I am not in any way trying to erase their existence. This does not make me bigoted or transphobic.

Unfortunately, it is hard to talk about this in public, not because I am a bigot, but because people who have never really thought about the issues assume that 'being kind' is just the non-bigoted thing to do, without thinking it through and realising that allowing transwomen into women's spaces is not kind to women.

I can't tell the difference between men who aren't predators and men who are. This is not bigoted. It's discriminating against all the men who are not predators to refuse to allow them in women's spaces, but that is a positive type of discrimination that allows women safety and dignity.

And counting…..

I wish I had better statistics and examples to hand all the time, so that I could explain to people the reasons that I felt this way, because one of the biggest problems talking about it publicly is that people really just geuninely haven't heard of the number of transwomen who are in women's prisons, for example, or any issues arising from transwomen in women's toilets, changing rooms, refuges, or rape crisis centres. This isn't because the problems don't exist, but because they are not mainstream news, or aren't reported in a way that makes it clear what is happening. And because they don't know, they don't see any problems with 'being kind'. They don't know that most transwomen don't have any physical surgery or hormones. They don't know that they are not super-rare any more. They don't know that things like the suicide stats are not accurate. They are just much less aware of the whole topic, and as a result, can't really imagine that there could be a problem. And it seems to heavy for a normal conversation to suddenly be bringing up statistics and sources and trying to show them what they're missing. The myth of vulnerability, oppression etc has gone so deep that everyone feels that transwomen taking women's places in anything should be celebrated, and I don't feel equipped enough to instnatly provide the evidence needed to show them that it's not. I would like more media to do that first, and then it would be easier. The recent controversies in sports are starting to help with that, as you can then refer to things most people would have heard of. Even still, it can be hard to overcome the 'but they've been so discriminated against, we must let them into women's competitions' mindset.

Genuinely I don't think anyone needs statistics. Start from basic principles. Are TW women? Ok, what do you consider a woman to be - are there multiple definitions? How can a sex and a gender "match" or not - aren't they entirely separate things ?

Has "gender identity" become another term for whether one feels masculine or feminine, or somewhere in between or neither - and if so, what does that have to do with sex?

In terms of getting through to people, I've found the following to be most helpful

The tiny percentage of TW who actually have surgery.

An individual named Barbie Khardashian, currently in a woman's prison in limerick (ROI).

I think the people I tend to speak to in general life aren't that bothered by the difference between gender identity and sex. They imagine that some people have some nebulous feeling of being a woman, and that it's such a small number of people, and they've had a hard life and have been tortured with the decision but finally decided to transition (they assume physically with surgery and hormones), then what's the harm in being kind and letting them into women's spaces, really. I don't think any of them thinks there is an actual biological transition - they know it's a 'legal fiction' to call them women, but they assume that it's a kindness to do so, and that the kind thing is to treat them as if they were women, including them in women's spaces. They just can't really imagine any of this tiny number of tortured souls would cause any problems, and believe that the chance of anyone else claiming to be trans for nefarious reasons is just ridiculously improbable. "Surely not" is the kind of response they would give. At this point, it's really just not enough on their radar to need or want to look into it further, or even really discuss it.

So maybe some people don't need statistics to be able to argue well, but for me personally, I think I'd be more convincing if I did have instant access in my head to robust sources that I felt confident bringing up. I am not good socially at the best of times, however, and get tongue tied quickly, so frankly I'm not likely to be able to do this easily. This is one reason i don't talk about it in public.

Yes amongst friends as my two dds identified as boys between ages 12 and 15/16. I've lived through this ideology for 8 years so honestly don't give a fuck anymore. My work also know - but they know the shit I've been through to stop my daughters going on the trans conveyor belt. Most people agree with me to be honest, and those who don't respect my views.

I don't like the term GC either. It's called common sense, it doesn't need a label. Calling yourself an obscure term makes it sound like a fringe belief and makes it easy to shout 'bigots, loud minority' at you.

And another deflection.

It is ok, readers who are taking notice have seen your deflection and you inability to answer much with honesty and they certainly see how you cannot really push back on the hypocrisy of your posts either.

Do keep it going because the live demonstration is about as good as it gets.

"They don't know that things like the suicide stats are not accurate."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

"Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth."

I think research published by the National Library of Medicine is probably more accurate than a randomer on the internet.

Baroness Nicholson is a homophobe and it is not a deflection to say that she when she is brought up on this forum.