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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

1000 replies

JellySaurus · 31/08/2022 11:48

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?
OP posts:
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14
thedancingbear · 09/09/2022 10:57

I mean, I think anyone invoking Nazi imagery in that kind of way is a dick. But that shouldn't be proscribed thought. The irony is extraordinary.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 10:59

Agree, it's extremely selective who gets to be a dick and who doesn't, as well.

RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 09/09/2022 11:24

stillvicarinatutu · 08/09/2022 23:42

I am truly sorry if I came across as an arse before.

I am dreadfully hormonal- in the throes of menopause. I do get terribly emotional.

Anyway I'm very glad if I can effect any change for the Better with a few well posed questions to our legal bods.

So very impressed by your return to the thread and your willingness to listen and inform

Honestly...kudos to you

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2022 11:35

What was the meeting where TRAs were repeatedly kicking the windows of the venue throughout, and the police said they couldn't do anything?

NecessaryScene · 09/09/2022 11:39

What was the meeting where TRAs were repeatedly kicking the windows of the venue throughout, and the police said they couldn't do anything?

WPUK at Brighton, during a Labour Conference, IIRC.

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2022 11:40

Thanks Necessary. That was shocking.

AlisonDonut · 09/09/2022 13:16

thedancingbear · 09/09/2022 10:57

I mean, I think anyone invoking Nazi imagery in that kind of way is a dick. But that shouldn't be proscribed thought. The irony is extraordinary.

Like this, which is what the nazi pride flag meme was in response to?

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?
NecessaryScene · 09/09/2022 13:51

The sheer literal-mindedness of that bunch sometimes boggles me.

You can have people who come over all a-quiver at swastikas being used in some non-Nazi context - for example, there was some daft thing in Canada about some summer camp having to be cancelled because the volunteers working there this year couldn't handle the historical swastika decorations on the building they always use. There were all lots of statements talking about "racism" and "harm" etc, as they tend to do.

But Nazi-style imagery like that Regent Street thing wouldn't faze the same people at all, because it's not actual swastikas.

"Never again" was supposed to be interpreted a little more, um, generally than "no swastikas". The swastikas were never really the point, you know?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 13:56

But Nazi-style imagery like that Regent Street thing wouldn't faze the same people at all, because it's not actual swastikas.

However our own national flag made many of these people clutch their pearls, because it was "colonialist" and hung in the same way was reminiscent of fascism etc. You can legitimately argue that point, but I'm going to think you're a tiny bit of a hypocrite if you don't apply it to your own dominance display.

AlisonDonut · 09/09/2022 14:20

Those same people are literally leaping about on Twitter today, rejoicing the death of the Queen for many reasons, and it really it quite a sight to behold. Not just rejoicing, bludgenoning her with their words.

And little Owen Jones worried in case some journos scroll down to his anti-royalist tweets lest he be cancelled...after he sent his millions after a teenager who was bullied by 60 girls and kicked out of school for standing up and saying 'biological sex is real'.

They hypocracy is off the scale today. And every other day but today OMG.

Felix125 · 09/09/2022 14:25

Ereshkigalangcleg

Now you are embellishing it wildly, aren't you? Before you were trying to make a laboured case for recording non crime hate incidents, so they were just "dolls of non white background" implying he was racist. Not child dolls. How much drip feeding are you going to do?

It doesn't matter - either your argument is good, or your argument is bad.

If you are saying that nothing like this should be recorded anywhere - then it won't matter what is added or embellished so long as its not a crime.

Mr Smith is visited by police - they see that he has child dolls dressed in school uniforms. He freely admits to playing out violence sex acts with them and enjoys 'rape' scenarios

Mr Jones is visited by police - they see he has loads of of posters on his walls against all non-white people. He openly states that he has been on various EDL type marches and hates anyone who is non-white.

Mr Thompson is visited by police - they see loads of stuff concerning being anti-trans people and openly admits that he has a hatred of them and doesn't agree with anything they say or stand for.

So for each scenario you would say that nothing should be recorded anywhere. So nothing will come back on any DBS or similar check?

So you would be fine with Mr Smith applying for a job in a nursery school. Mr Jones applying to work in a multi-ethnic secondary school. Mr Thompson applying to work in a support agency for trans people.

And you would happily grant Mr Smith, Mr Jones & Mr Thompson a fire arms licence if they applied for one - as there would be nothing recorded anywhere to stop it.

You can't see any problems with this?

If the wheel falls off and Mr Jones takes his gun to school and starts shooting people - it wouldn't be an issue that police had the information on him but were not allowed to disclose it anywhere?

You would just say that there was nothing the police could have done to prevent it?

Answer my question about whether I should be able to report my child's teacher to the police for watching hardcore porn at home. It's misogynistic in the extreme, he shouldn't be teaching young girls.

Yes - of course you can report it. If you're looking at a criminal offence however it will have to cross that line. Will it specifically need an officer to attend and investigate further will depend on what you actually report and how it will be graded. But there is nothing stopping you reporting it.

Is the women's testimony not good enough for you?
When apparently the testimony of some arsehole who phoned up with a vexatious complaint was.

So, you have one side of the story - you need to get the other. Or do you want the police to just believe one person over the other without speaking to both.

So when the "arsehole phones up with a vexatious complaint" does the call taker immediately make a judgement that its vexatious right from the off?

What ever the initial call was - its gone through a call taker, a dispatcher and a comms operator before the job was passed out to a police officer. So that's three brains (maybe more) that have had a look and assessed it and decided it needs further input before it can be closed.

AlisonDonut
None of that matters when the two officers stand outside a house and read a sticker does it?
They can surely to goodness read the words and work out that it isn't in any way a threat and just walk away.

Yes - I'm happy that the sticker would not have said anything untoward - but what else was told to the police or call taker when they spoke to the reporting person?

stillvicarinatutu
I agree that what the PCSO did was wrong - and have said as much all the way through this. Its the initial call and the police officer deployment which i am querying.

FoundDoris
Body Cams - there are not on at all times as the batteries would run out. They last about 2-3 hours before they start to go, so you have to use them selectively. usually at incidents, DV's, violent attacks etc etc.

They are triggered to activate if they receive a sudden jolt - sometimes when i have been attacked they have started automatically

They also pre-record 30 seconds prior to activation. So, when i hit the button to record, the footage will start 30 seconds prior to me hitting the button.

The footage then gets downloaded onto the database and rests there for 30 days. Anyone can then mark it as evidential, which drops onto another system and is there permanently. I think that it should be automatically permanent, but the powers that be site the cost of data storage - i do mark all mine as evidiential, no matter what the incident was.

If a complaint comes in about how an officer behaves - the footage will get marked as evidiential.

Hope that helps

NecessaryScene
The addition of 'human Rights' in the oath - this is where your safeguarding will lie. So a suicidal missing from home is not breaking any law - but he does have 'a right to life' - so the police are now given powers & direction to persue this.

If we have a credible threat to some one, we have a duty to safeguard that person

It all comes down to my argument on safeguarding and how most of our time is tied up with that as apposed to woke issues.

ScreamingMeMe
Yes - there are loads of incidents where the police mess up on and get it wrong. And dynamic incidents can suddenly change and a decision has to made on the spur of the moment on how to proceed with it.

So the protesters banging on the window - yes public order offences all day long - but say you have 50 officer policing the event and 100 protesters banging on the windows. That's 2 lock ups each and every officer is now sat in custody waiting to book & process their prisoner - with no one left to police the protest.

Jennifer Swayne: arrested for stickers - there is no such offence as 'stickers' - what was she actually arrested for?

But such protests and incidents with stickers are few and far between compared to the day to day incidents which response policing has to deal with. And, in my opinion, the reason why we can't deal with crime effectively is that fact that were are all tied up with safeguarding issues.

It happens on our shift every day. When we speak to officers in other forces, they say the same. We might need them to do a missing from home search at the other end of the country - and they will show they have no officers available due to officers at hospital with prisoners or safeguarding victims etc etc.

This is where the real problem is - but once we have gone down this route, I can't see a way back from it

Cell watching is another one - drunken bloke arrested for D&D said that when he wakes up he is going to banging his head off the wall of his cell - officers have to cell watch him. That's 2 officers watching a bloke who is asleep, just in case he wakes up and bangs his head.

AlisonDonut · 09/09/2022 14:35

Yes - I'm happy that the sticker would not have said anything untoward - but what else was told to the police or call taker when they spoke to the reporting person?

It doesn't matter. Having a sticker isn't illegal. What it said wasn't illegal. It was on her own property. You know the woman we are talking about is actually on this thread?

Do you realise the whole of your post with examples, is exactly what the judge was talking about when he said that we have never had a Stazi in this country?

You capturing people's proclivities on a database somewhere that only you can access and making decisions about who is on there and what for, for acts that are actually NOT ILLEGAL. That is Stazi-like behaviour.

Jennifer Swayne: arrested for stickers - there is no such offence as 'stickers' - what was she actually arrested for?

She was arrested for stickers. Nobody else was arrested for stickers, even though loads of stickers are in Newport. Newport, Gwent. grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/jenni-swaynes-magnificent-police

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 14:38

If you are saying that nothing like this should be recorded anywhere - then it won't matter what is added or embellished so long as its not a crime.

Talking about being attracted to children isn't a "non crime hate incident", is it? Or do you think if you can monitor paedophiles you should also be able to monitor everyone's opinions?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 14:41

Yes - of course you can report it. If you're looking at a criminal offence however it will have to cross that line. Will it specifically need an officer to attend and investigate further will depend on what you actually report and how it will be graded. But there is nothing stopping you reporting it.

Thanks, perhaps women should report all men who look at porn to the police then, just on the off chance it "crosses that line".

This isn't serious. I hate porn, but it's legal to access stuff that is completely misogynistic. As is holding racist, sexist, transphobic, disablist, homophobic opinions.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 14:45

Mr Jones is visited by police - they see he has loads of of posters on his walls against all non-white people. He openly states that he has been on various EDL type marches and hates anyone who is non-white.

I imagine the police, rightly or wrongly, have a list of troublemakers that they monitor via Prevent etc. This isn't the same thing. This is a lady with a sticker on her door about trans ideology erasing women. Your profiling should tell you that Mr Jones is more likely to be a violent threat than Bella Doe is.

ScreamingMeMe · 09/09/2022 14:48

Jennifer Swayne: arrested for stickers - there is no such offence as 'stickers' - what was she actually arrested for?

Oh don't be so bloody pedantic! And if you actually bothered to read the information in the threads linked to, you'd already have the full picture.

Felix125 · 09/09/2022 15:04

AlisonDonut
I know she is on this thread - i believe i have answered one of her points

I have not said that the sticker is illegal?

What I am questioning is what was the initial call?
What was given to the call taker?
What was dispatched to the officers?
What did the reporting person say to the police officers?

Jennifer Swayne can not have been arrested for stickers - as there is no such offence. What was the specific offence she was arrested for?

Ereshkigalangcleg
No - he's not attracted to children, he is attracted to dolls dressed as children

Reporting people watching porn - yes that's fine - you can report it, so long as you have the evidence to back it up and why you believe its offensive to you or others or puts others at risk. It will be taken on its merits

But if the initial report was given to police that there is a non-offensive sticker on a door with no other implications or offences, i doubt it would have made it past the call taker stage

Mr Jones - but if you're saying that his opinions should not be recorded, he's views will not go on any database such as Prevent would they. otherwise he is perfectly law abiding and never been in trouble with the police. Any employer doing a DBS & enhanced DBS check would have nothing to prevent him being employed. And you can allow him to have a gun later on too.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 15:10

You are embellishing and making up backstories to suit your argument, Felix. You can't monitor everyone's wrongthink. It has to be done by risk assessment, otherwise it's a pointless waste of time and getting towards a police state.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 15:15

Reporting people watching porn - yes that's fine - you can report it, so long as you have the evidence to back it up and why you believe its offensive to you or others or puts others at risk. It will be taken on its merits

Not "people". If every woman reported men for watching vile violently misogynistic stuff (which you are implying would be hate incident worthy if about a protected group) it would pose quite some logistical problems for the police to deal with it all, if they are required to investigate each one (which of course I am fully aware they will not, because you're not saying this in any good faith).

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 15:16

And again, I will pause and say what a bang up job you are doing of proving the OP. I assume you are posting on this thread for your own entertainment, because you certainly aren't winning anyone over.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/09/2022 15:18

And I'm not engaging with this derail and deflection any longer, because you're just coming up with scenarios that are nothing like what has happened here.

najene · 09/09/2022 16:00

Further OT, I know, but ...

Felix125: "Body Cams - ... Not on at all times ... start 30 seconds prior to activation."

Hmm.

Backwards-in-time causation. Clever stuff. Or, well, actually no: impossible.

If you believe this, Felix125 (and it's a pretty long typo if not), we would be foolish to take seriously anything else you say. Hein?

stillvicarinatutu · 09/09/2022 20:26

najene · 09/09/2022 16:00

Further OT, I know, but ...

Felix125: "Body Cams - ... Not on at all times ... start 30 seconds prior to activation."

Hmm.

Backwards-in-time causation. Clever stuff. Or, well, actually no: impossible.

If you believe this, Felix125 (and it's a pretty long typo if not), we would be foolish to take seriously anything else you say. Hein?

I'm going to spend some time reading those links .

But I can confirm that body worn video does start to record 30 seconds prior to the point of activation. They are always "on" but not always recording - we have the very latest ones . And they ac do backtrack by 30 seconds . It's so the first few seconds of any incident is recorded. So if you only press record as soon as someone opens the door say - you capture the 30 seconds prior to the door being opened- so if you were attacked say - you can see the precluding seconds before it happened, or if someone opens the door with blood pouring from their face and screams "he hit me " you capture that even if they later change the story to protect someone - it's useful in lots of situations,

Felix - my job now consists of going through the entire active queue to try and filter out some of the jobs that out on that si t really warrant a cop going out of if I can deal with it by phone - I do t know what the call handlers are like where you are but part of my frustration is they wang a job on the box now item than not even if there is clearly no offence . I do t know if it's lack of training (they have very little in the way of legal training) or the other of least resistance but you'd be surprised at the amount of absolute non jobs I weed out . Our call handlers operate as if it's a customer service call centre and it absolutely drives me insane . I sit in a corner o the office and it's a good job because the chuntering I do gets confined! The handlers who sit near me are oretry used to me swearing at some of the utter tripe that gets an incident created.
I can actually believe that someone rang up saying I'm offended by a sticker and they just aonok and put a job in the box . I sit opened mouthed sometimes at what I get rid of before it even gets to an officer .

stillvicarinatutu · 09/09/2022 20:28

Sorry about the typos . You get my jist .

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