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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

1000 replies

JellySaurus · 31/08/2022 11:48

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:28

Recorded a hate incident if she truly felt it was some personal affront

No, you shouldn't be doing this. Read the Harry Miller judgment.

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:32

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AlisonDonut · 05/09/2022 21:33

Exactly. Recording it as a hate incident. So you have been stonewalled and you don't even know it. Thanks for the confirmation that everything we are saying is true.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:33

I'm shocked that police officers feel they can record "hate incidents" about perfectly legal things because a person is "affronted", and then can't see the problem or understand why people think there is a major lack of impartiality issue with the police.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:34

Exactly. Recording it as a hate incident. So you have been stonewalled and you don't even know it. Thanks for the confirmation that everything we are saying is true.

This. Astonishingly clear.

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:34

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stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:35

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:37

That's what she said should have happened in this case - not a criminal offence recorded. If you don't understand the law it's hard to grasp why a non crime needs recording - but if someone perceives something to be hate related then the rules are record it - but in that case it was no more a crime than me posting here .

She didn't say anything of the sort. This judgment wasn't about criminal offences. It was about "non crime hate incidents" in and of themselves. She specifically criticises the police overuse of "non crime hate incidents" based on perception by complainant. She says they can be "non crime, non hate incidents".

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:38

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AlisonDonut · 05/09/2022 21:39

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May I refer you to the first fucking post on here and the topic of the thread?

Was it not me that originally asked about how things like this are recorded for police statistics? You said there were no boxes. Jeez.

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:40

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stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:49

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:50

I literally quoted her earlier, not that you bother to read what people post. You aren't following most of the conversation, you keep misinterpreting what people say.

She was pointing out that current guidance on "non crime hate incidents" means that some incidents are recorded which don't actually involve objective "hate". It's not up to me to lobby anyone. This is a court judgment that CoP need to work with.

My bold:

Giving the court’s ruling, Dame Victoria Sharp said the guidance did ‘sanction or positively approve or encourage unlawful conduct … which violates Article 10’.

She said ‘perception-based recording’ has a legitimate aim ‘linked to the prevention of disorder or crime and the protection of the rights of others’, which is ‘sufficiently important to justify interfering with the fundamental right to freedom of expression’. However, Sharp held that ‘less intrusive means could have been used to achieve those legitimate aims’.

The guidance requires the recording of a non-crime hate incident ‘if the perception of the victim or any other person is that it is motivated, for example, by spite or ill will against a protected strand, irrespective of whether there is evidence to support that perception or not’, she said.

Sharp added: ‘Thus, the guidance contemplates on its face the recording by the police of incidents as non-crime hate incidents, which are, to put it shortly, non-crime non-hate incidents.’

The judge held that perception-based recording of non-crime incidents is not ‘per se unlawful’, but said that ‘some additional safeguards should be put in place so that the incursion into freedom of expression is no more than is strictly necessary’.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:52

Either you have to record every single time someone reports "hate" or you don't, because you have discretion. It's that simple.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:53

@spero I wondered if you might be interested in this conversation. Apologies if not!

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:54

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AlisonDonut · 05/09/2022 21:55

It's not us, or stonewall, it's the home office.

The home office that paid to be members of the Stonewall Diversity Scheme.

The same diversity scheme that has been where all these directives have come from.

You guys really need to sit back, listen and do some research about where you are being led.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:56

There is no "has to". That's your spin. She is merely explaining how it works. Now deal with the rest of her comments and stop telling me she's saying something she isn't.

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 21:58

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 21:59

The guidance requires the recording of a non-crime hate incident ‘if the perception of the victim or any other person is that it is motivated, for example, by spite or ill will against a protected strand, irrespective of whether there is evidence to support that perception or not’,

"The guidance" was found to be at fault in this very judgment. That's the whole point.

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 22:00

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 22:03

We do not have discretion!! That's what I'm saying to you . If someone
Goes
I think that was directed at me cos I'm gay/ lesbian/a man/ a woman or trans - we HaVE to
Record either a NON CRIMre inc or so f it's a crime a hate crime .

I quote you earlier:

Every office will deal with a job differently.

"Me ? I'd have said jog on . Recorded a hate incident if she truly felt it was some personal affront and then closed it . "

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 22:03

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2022 22:06

It's useful on this thread to see the extent of the overreach of police reporting of trivial incidents and opinions, as Harry Miller brought his complaint about. That police officers don't see it as a big deal, and can't understand why people don't want vexatious non crimes to be recorded against their name which can be disclosed under enhanced DBS etc.

stillvicarinatutu · 05/09/2022 22:08

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