Teacher suspended in Ireland for refusing to use prefered pronoun and name

[miri1985]

www.thejournal.ie/high-court-injunction-teacher-westmeath-pronouns-5853324-Aug2022/

And yes he is one of those Burkes (large very fundamentalist family, campagined against gay marriage, prone to take cases but not a great track of winning)

My impression is that the issue is more to do with his conduct and how he publicly addressed the schools managment.

The pronoun request and name change is what started the falling out, but really he has no excuse for challenging his school principal in that way.

He's going to lose and be out of a job.

See, I don't think his conduct is the worst thing here. Certainly as in the Cass Report it was outlined how damning it may be children when adults (ostensibly in positions of care) merrily put them on the conveyer belt. Towards.. who knows.

It is promoting 'stuff' which is anti reality, anti scientific and is damaging to women and children. I always think the chappies who like this stuff (or don't call it out) are a little suspect imo. Rather like those who used to move priests (from the last religion) onto new parishes - and fresh parishioners.

Is his family background the most important thing here?

He sounds obnoxious, and agreeing with his original position does not mean that we should be excusing his appalling behaviour after the fact.

His actions since being suspended are absolutely inexcusable.

Agreed. His behaviour isn't acceptable.

Btw, the sentence construction and grammar in that article is appalling.

The entire Burke family has form for bizarre outbursts and obnoxious behaviour.

Looks as if he's been suspended for some appalling behaviour. People like this use kids to push their own issues. No teacher should be making a scene about an individual child like this - shows a complete lack of professionalism and care.

He was brave even if his behaviour in trying to bring what was wrong to people’s attention was atrocious.

Everyone just going along with transing students may be polite etc but aren’t right either.

I agree schools shouldn't be socially transitioning children but I'm a bit fierce about adults not using individual children to make their points. Trans lobby groups have no compunction about using even the youngest of children to push their beliefs in every way.
We're better than that. Individual children (often very mentally unwell) should never be at the centre of public adult debates about aspects of their lives in the way this individual has done.

Was he fuck brave. His behaviour following suspension was nothing to do with protecting children, it was egotistical and borderline insane.

Defending the indefensible does not help the GC cause, it diminishes it.

His behaviour seems fairly standard for this family even in court where you think they'd be on best behaviour. Thats why I think the family background matters.

In no way will this case be conducted in a normal manner.

I don't agree with compelled speech but I also agree with posters upthread that an individual child shouldn't be used to make such a point.

Isn’t this a case where we can see that the middle ground is fracturing and disappearing? Demands to be called ‘they’ are provocative, ‘believe my ideology’, and the challenge to this isn’t from the middle ground.

Exactly this.

I won’t be holding my breath for this case giving many people in Ireland pause to think about the wider ramifications of gender ideology.

The Burkes are very litigious, self represent and have conducted themselves very poorly in court and in public in general.

I will not be hitching my horse to the Burke’s wagon.

Have to agree with this. Appalling behaviour from a family with form, who always appear to be spoiling for a fight. This individual's manner of dealing with the pronouns issue was allegedly to harass the principal. If that is the case, I'm not in the least surprised he was disciplined.

Certainly not a cause Irish GC women will want to be associated with.

People who would persecute others based on their sex and sexuality are also likely to be GC - their views, campaigns and agendas have zero place in the GC movement which more than anything is about protecting rights.

What a surprise, bigots gonna bigot. While this man might have done what many GC individuals would love to do, he's certainly not a star they should hitch their wagon to. His treatment of trans individuals doesn't come from a place of gender criticism or need to prioritize the safety of women, it comes from a place of hatred.

People who would persecute others based on their sex and sexuality are also likely to be GC

Not as I understand "gender critical", they aren't. Anyone who wants to persecute others based on their sexuality is likely to want to enforce gender stereotypes and social expectations. Being gender critical means rejecting gender stereotypes for everyone. Everyone can wear what they want, have whatever interests they want, date who they want.

People who persecute others based on their sexuality are likely to be conservatives. They are people who want to enforce gender roles and stereotypes based on sex. This was neatly conveyed by that Venn diagram which did the rounds some years ago:

I've never heard of him and I'm glad! FWIW, I think the person's chosen name should be used but I certainly wouldn't bother about pronouns.

But you are OK with the school and the entire education system using kids to inculcate their crazy ideology. I'm being a bit facetious of course but that's what's happening.

Too bad it's an extreme Pentecostalist who is bringing the case. His whole family are vexatious litigants so I assume he will lose. However , on this subject all publicity really is good publicity.

Sorry @MrsOvertonsWindow ...misread your first sentence. Too early!

I disagree Abhanmor. This is not good publicity and will be used to frame anybody with concerns as being like him. His actions were awful and certainly did not stem from concern and compassion for the child involved.

His problem will be that he was not suspended for refusing to use the new name and pronoun, rather he was suspended for causing a scene at his work place at an inappropiate time.
I would guess is if he had played it differently and just continued on using the old name and sexing pronoun as normal, he could still be suspended for not using the new name as people are free to change their name.
The only point of debate would be if he correctly sexed the child.

The question becomes what happens in the school if another child correctly sexed the child in question?
That is a clash of the rights of 2 children.

Agreed. Bad publicity is absolutely not helpful.

I didn't see the deleted post so can't respond if it referred to mine. Yes SolasAnla that's what I meant. The suspension seems to be for his behaviour at the dinner and towards the principal but headlines are reporting it as if it was due of using/ not using pronouns. His behaviour and the compelled speech element are two separate things. When he inevitably looses I worry that this will be framed as legal support that chosen pronouns must be used and be used to shut down any other concerned parents/teachers questioning the push for social transition throughout the country.