What rights don't transpeople have?

[CrossStichQueen]

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

It's all really very clear. We are all lions now. Some lions are cis lions and other lions are trans lions. But they all share the same scratching post even if they don't like scratching posts and even if it's a different one.

🤣🤣🤣

This thread is a good example of why genderists won't debate. They don't have any decent arguments.

I've just been made aware that this thread has become a discussion point for an area away from Mumsnet and that some threats have been made against me. So I'm going to withdraw

So you've had threats, presumably off men, to stop engaging in discussions with women because you are drawing too much attention to here.

And you think women and mumsnet are the problem?
Women are being doxxed, sent rape and death threats, even had their children threatened, and their livelihoods just for wanting to retain their own sex based rights and protections.

The threats to women are very real.
They want us silenced. They need us to stop talking and pointing out the very real dangers to women and children caused by their ideology.

Women wanting spaces segregated by sex and their existing rights upheld, and knowing that transwomen are not the same as us, is a perfectly reasonable, and accepted by the vast majority, viewpoint. There is nothing 'extreme' about it.

Yet you tell us 'both sides are as bad as each other'? Fucking nonsense.

So to answer the OP, can we conclude that trans people don't have the right to go on holiday and leave their pet lion in a cattery? Something the RSPCA should be looking into?

The elephant in the room trumpeting loudly with a look at ME vibe was that the commonality that Trying20 believes there is between women and transwomen is the bunch of sexist stereotypes this whole Gender Ideology is based upon. However, he knew damn well not to say that explicitly but that is exactly what he was saying between the lines of his verbal diatribe.

Misogyny, regressive sexist stereotypes, mansplaining, patriarchy just another day in the world for women.

However, he knew damn well not to say that explicitly but that is exactly what he was saying between the lines of his verbal diatribe.

He painted himself into that corner so beautifully though

I am patiently, patiently trying to read this thread through before I come back and engage. But this made my teeth itch so much. And I know by now it would have been tackled by you articulate women.

I've made the point a few time. You have used the phrase transwomen. So you know there is a difference between transwomen and women. You, and many others throughout this thread, have used the word transwomen rather than men.

Do you understand trying that if we call a transitioned male a 'man' we get deleted and banned?

Do you actually have a clue? Or are you off in a world of your own?

I have posted several times about your deep prejudice about posters on this board, but this shows everyone that you have no experience on this board at all. READ THE TALK GUIDELINES. Especially set up for this board. No one is allowed to use the terminology you are now hypercritically using a lever to break open the definition of woman.

This is beginning to make me suspect your motivations in this all along.

Either way, your argument is absolutely worthless in that you have not once acknowledged that massive prejudice you are basing all your posts on.

The fact that you have little knowledge about the group you have labelled 'extremist', 'Incel' and fighting a 'made up war', shows you to have ulterior motives, or to be simply infuriated that woman disagree with you and show you up to have a deep and abiding prejudice against women. Or it could be both.

Yep. We're 'not like him' so we must be 'like each other'.

Very othering.

Yeah. Trying exited the space that was being targeted with threats. Presumably he has now self excluded from that space. Because he doesn't like the feeling of being threatened, targeted or not safe.

You could hear my irony klaxon from bloody space if it wasn't being drowned out by my hypocrisy alarm.

The elephant in the room trumpeting loudly with a look at ME vibe was that the commonality that Trying20 believes there is between women and transwomen is the bunch of sexist stereotypes this whole Gender Ideology is based upon. However, he knew damn well not to say that explicitly but that is exactly what he was saying between the lines of his verbal diatribe.

Precisely.

Exactly.

What normal person, who isn't a raging transactivist, spends hours and hours and pages and pages trying to come up with the most torturous definition of a woman on the planet? Unless they realise, quite early on, that their internal definition was a bit dodgy.

Trying, who hadn't really given it any thought, but was, presumably, familiar with the transwomen he comes into contact with, just assumed that what women had in common with men who identify as women was superficial gender stereotyping. Hair, make up, etc.

And, like a lot of people, as soon as he is asked to actually unpick that assumption, it turns out to be quite obviously sexist.

Hence being reduced to clothes horse and racing horse, and claiming the definition of a lion is circular.

I don't think Trying is going to be one of those who changes his mind, though. It would be inconvenient for him, and probably completely unnecessary in his eyes.

And despite the hours spent trying to show us how right he was, he failed to answer the OPs question. I think the rights transwomen don't have is the right to make women accept a definition of 'woman' which serves their purposes.

I'm not worried about that TBH.

I'm more worried that people think it's an actual problem that they can't compel everyone to accept their personal worldview as true.

I just hope Trying never decides to take up taxonomy.

Well, fuck! I have had to read between the lines for the past 6 pages!

It is surely an awful thing that trying was threatened for posting here. I wonder why? I wonder if he will know why? But it was obviously scary enough that all his posts are now gone from all over the site.

Do you think he got into trouble from his masters for using transwoman and not trans woman?

Wow. In case you're still following this thread still Trying20, I am very sorry to hear that.

As I said to you on the AIBU thread, I consider my attempts to engage with you were a complete waste of my time, and I think it was most unfortunate that your posts on AIBU ended up disrupting a thread that was supposed to be about children's welfare. If you ever return to this forum (which sounds unlikely), maybe you could have a think about that.

But that said, making threats against you is totally wrong and it must be very frightening. I totally condemn them wherever and whomever they have come from. Nobody should be made to feel unsafe because of posts they have made on social media.

But that said, making threats against you is totally wrong and it must be very frightening. I totally condemn them wherever and whomever they have come from. Nobody should be made to feel unsafe because of posts they have made on social media.

God no. I wonder why he had to delete all his posts.

is there anything about it on Twitter?

making threats against you is totally wrong and it must be very frightening. I totally condemn them wherever and whomever they have come from. Nobody should be made to feel unsafe because of posts they have made on social media.

I agree. It's accepted all the time when directed at women and that's not OK. Neither is it OK when directed at a man, even if we fear mysogynistic undertones. These things need to be discussed and the threats which are too easily rolled out are preventing that and scaring people. Society needs to stop accepting it.

+1

If would be annoyed if someone who was a MN poster had taken this elsewhere.

Although there are an awful lot of bad faith actors who spend their day scouring MN to then post on Twitter or elsewhere.

Both sides need to call out abuse more. Its not acceptable.

I don't actually post on Twitter / Reddit because they are vile places.

I do think Trying needs to reevaluate his attitude towards woman, but he absolutely does not deserve abuse and I am pleased he never got any on this platform. A 29 page thread and I don't think there was 1 post deleted before Trying eas threatened. Yet this is a cesspit of extremism.

Trying, I hope you are OK and do not suffer further threats.

He did say some things that would be unacceptable to TRAs.

He said that he didn't think TWAW or TMAM for relationship purposes and he suggested third spaces for trans people.

Apart from his absurd 'proof' that women and transwomen belong in the same category, he seemed to agree with quite a lot of what we say on here. That's probably enough to get you cancelled and threatened in TRA-land.

Yes, got one from me when I read it!

I imagine it was the whole 'I took a man home and it turns out it wasn't a man so I left' TERFism that got him cancelled.