Antipodean fruit grower statement

[nothingcomestonothing]

The antipodean fruit growers site is down. A statement from the owner reads in part:

What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [redacted by me as would be against MN talk guidelines] while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which criticizes [redacted], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

Posted for info.

Yeah, people don't come to the attention of the farms for merely being trans and going about their daily business.

Soz, my poor (lazy) grammar there.

KF have focused on evidencing material that (largely) comes directly from LOL cows, not trans issues

as far as I’m aware, trans only became a specific topic of discussion when Chris Chan transitioned (2016) and after much arguing amongst members, Null drew a line in the sand re pronouns (which was, paraphrasing, ‘each poster decides, not the LOL cow, and don’t bother correcting each other or reporting it’)

some angry feminists moved over there after The Great Reddit Cull (2020?) mostly because you could call a man a man and if you’d done a deep dive on someone nasty you could upload it over there and not worry about the whole thread being deleted (as sometimes happens here).

the trans threads were spread all over the site until the Keffals thing kicked off and then Null made a dedicated section (although not all trans lolcows were moved over, depends on whether they were more well known for something other than being trans or not).

That’s my understanding of how the trans critical chat took hold over there but it’s only conjecture, obvs (I originally discovered the farms due to being signposted from here although I can’t remember who it was that was being discussed over there who we couldn’t be quite so frank about over here… David Challoner maybe? Or Lily Madigan? I forget. Circa 2018 anyway).

Yes, I think I went there first about the Challinor family. There was so much about that family that couldn't be said and the lack of transparency affecting their political career was extraordinary.

My second visit was about Archie.

Neither of those were trans related , though the challinor situation became trans related.

It's hardly a new thing for the left to be pro-censorship.

People need to get past this naive view that "the real left" is just soft social democracy run by harmless hippies.

The utopian vision of the left that they are on the road to the right end of history is a hugely dangerous idea - the right, when it embraces similar ideas, can also be very dangerous.

But that isn't alien to the left by any means, it's built into the marxist view of history. In a way it's more unusual to see a left that has shed that element.

I look forward to Justine telling the full story. I am sure she has been subject to all sorts of pressure. Mumsnet has achieved an international notoriety, for having done nothing other than allow polite debate. She did not need to do it, but she did, and I am grateful.

The fruitfarms were way less polite. I had a look when the Challinor thing blew up, and also for background on Yaniv and the litigious lawyer. From what I remember, Caroline Farrow and Glinner did not escape entirely, as least initially. It was important that things could be documented. Too early for say Saville, but had the farmers been around then the dots would have been joined up much faster.

I always predicted that when the tide began to turn things would get much nastier. I see more pressure on MN. Lots more misogyny directed at Liz Truss. (Dislike her political views all by all means, but where is the evidence that she is "stupid". Her performance as women's minister suggests that she is in fact an astute politician.) More widely there seems to be an acceptance that it is OK to hate and disparage women, and to refuse to consider important safeguarding and safety for girls and vulnerable women.

As far as I am concerned Null is one of the good guys who gets it and is determined to stand up for what he believes in, at real cost to himself. I hope he is reading.

Error 418: I am a Teapot

Does this mean anything to someone techie?

I'm not sure what Null's up to, but we can infer that he has disconnected that address from CloudFlare - it was only going to the CloudFlare error because Null had chosen to leave it like that, in the hope that CloudFlare would see sense, or alternatively just to make sure everyone got a chance to read CloudFlare's statement and hyperbolic message.

He's clearly moving onto a new plan, and part of that will be pointing the address at somewhere else aside from CloudFlare, and that's a placeholder for it.

The error itself I think comes from one of the technical documents for Internet protocol standardisation published on an April 1st some years ago. Not really funny enough to explain further...

Latest update from Null on Telegram was:

I have had an extraordinarily promising phonecall and I am filled with unbridled optimism.

But I don't speak Null well enough to know whether that's sarcasm or not. But it looks like all domains are currently leading to different nginx errors, suggesting they're all in the process of being changed over to something new, including the original "net", so it may not be sarcasm.

People need to get past this naive view that "the real left" is just soft social democracy run by harmless hippies.

ngl (as the kids are wont to say) it’s a pretty difficult idea to let go of.

I believe I am currently experiencing what is known as ‘a black pilling’.

who the fuck are the good guys? Do they exist at all?

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Black%20Pilled

It's very heartening to see so many people talking sense about censorship. This is the only place outside of the conservative net (because there are informally two nets now) where I've seen calm and reasonable discussion. I'm very disappointed to say that I quit my 'main' forum - an internet technologist's hangout no less - last week because that hivemind has fully adopted "censorship is every internet company's right, and besides it is good a necessary. Their thread on KF grew to 1500 comments, and the few that even appeared to stick up for speech or content-neutrality got battered into oblivion. Big tech has spoken, and big tech is the de facto government of the internet now.

I finally realized that spending virtual time with people who think I'm a stupid conspiracy nut and bigot, is exhausting, depressing, and completely pointless. It does not matter that they were people from my own former profession.

I agree with kittensinthekitchen's whole comment, especially that there is no way any KF mod, or null, or any of the OG members would ever stand for a thread that wanted to pick on someone just for being trans. That is not what the farms is for. Nobody who joined prior to 2020 thinks that's what it's for.

I had a long conversation with someone in tech who I still have a great deal of respect for. On the subject of whether it's ok to simply repost people's own public words, ala LibsOfTT and KF, he emphatically told me that it's an unwinnable fight on any site that is vulnerable to public opinion. Because Twitter people think in terms of the dumb rules of Twitterland. Which means that to them, putting those public words in front of an unfriendly audience is equal to 'targeting them for harassment.'

Also it's not the only thing we read about.
Since going over there at the beginning of yaniv I've read the entirety of at least 6 other threads that have nothing at all to do with trans. Took me days but my God they were interesting stuff.
I've never done a count up but I reckon very few threads are even about a trans person, or tangentially related. And thinking more on this, I think the more famous, as you say just going about daily busines, trans people actually dont even have a thread or if they do it is so far back and unused that I haven't found any.

I did a Twitter thread on this earlier. I only ever went on there after a poster who was banned from MN for trolling and targeting me, (think they made over 100 posts about me on here in a 24 hour period), began targeting me on Twitter and the Farmers documented it.

I have to visit the site every day and note the timings of posts because I am continually reported to the police for misgendering on Twitter and posting anonymously on the site. I think there’s been at least 5 or 6 reports to date.

I’m quite capable of getting into trouble under my own name!

I sent the Greenwald tweet-essay to someone, from my gmail to theirs. Just the link, with an appropriate subject. That ought to be an extremely trusted situation, but it went straight to their spam folder. Reason: Others reported similar messages as spam.

It seems like every day I encounter something even more chilling on the internet. I for one do not welcome our new algorithmic AI overlords. Algorithms seem custom fit to enforce tyranny of the majority.

I'm not suggesting Google is trying to do this. I am suggesting, as a veteran big tech engineer myself, that these algorithms can have the side effect of allowing users to vote on which messages are deliverable.

2022, y'all (sorry, am american).

There are plenty of soft harmless hippies on the left. Every movement has its followers and crowds who don't quite grasp what's going on.

As a small example, the Green party just voted in a new team of management on the basis of 12% turnout. It's a very small, tiny fraction of any movement that is even aware of the power struggles within it; an even smaller fractions that are involved. Most people don't know and don't much care, tbh.

But now on the basis of a few hundred votes, one of the UK's political parties will be headed in a certain direction.

Our new PM has been decided by a few thousand votes.

I don't personally believe there's such a thing as a wholly good or wholly bad person, no.

2022, y'all (sorry, am american)

But your posts are so informative and thought-provoking we can overlook the y’alls. 😉

This thread has taken an interesting turn and given me much to think about over the last few days. Thank you. It’s good to know there are still places on the internet where grown up discussion is possible.

@sleepwbutterflies If a number of Greenwald supporters were to send that link to themselves via email would the algorithm change if everyone clicked Not Spam should the email land in their Spam folder?

I've never done a count up but I reckon very few threads are even about a trans person, or tangentially related. And thinking more on this, I think the more famous, as you say just going about daily busines, trans people actually dont even have a thread or if they do it is so far back and unused that I haven't found any.

Apparently the new thing is lots of dumb trans people on Twitter who (wrongly) think KF is down talking about how awful it was and lying about how even they had a thread there, despite just being a poor innocent trans person. They're cataloguing a few of those claims on the general trans thread, but it's getting a bit boring. Sorry guys, you weren't and still aren't that interesting...

But it's yet another piece of victimisation they can claim. Part of the point of wanting KF down is to be able to lie about how you were persecuted by them even more easily.

I've just realised 'y'all' isn't irritating per se. It depends entirely on the tone.

One of the first people I saw getting doxxed on KF was a trans women who had the ignominy to post her coming out pictures on a reddit trans subreddit - they literally listed the subreddits to go harass people on the first post of the 'tr*ns and tra*ies' thread.

What was Julie Terryberry's crime?
What was Near's crime?
What was Chloe Sagal's crime?

You lot supported that vile pit

LordLoveADuck: As far as I know it would depend upon the proportions. It's all a game of percentages and weightings.

Thank "you all" for the kind words. To make matters worse, I live way down south where "y'all" and the plural "all y'all" are merely grammatically warranted normal pronouns 😄

STTE, the problem now for your cause is that by now we expect these are lies of omission, hyperbole, and misleading slants. We can't be taking the time to go research every one of these claims to find out if this is the time that the Kiwis were finally real, real bad for real.

What was/is the crime of the entirety of Kiwi Farms membership? Not sure I've heard of any legal action yet....

And just from memory (I may be wrong, am sure you'll have the evidence to prove me wrong) but didn't Chloe Sagal commit fraud via a gofundme or similar?

I was first made aware of KF by someone who ran a certain forum who was complaining he was being targeted. This was years ago. I remember heading over thinking it would be some horrible cesspit, but it was pretty similar to a lot of older forums on the early internet. Back then, I don’t remember seeing much about trans people on there at all.

More recently, I have headed over there on occasion because it’s the only place to find uncensored info about certain people that we weren’t allowed to talk about on here. I will say, there are more trans threads and threads about trans people. But… I think this is down to so many people on sites like Twitter claiming a trans identity. It’s becoming THE issue of the internet, because that’s what the people involved in all this want. If a site is dedicated to internet culture, of course it’s going to involve a lot of gender discussions and involve people who claim said identities.

It's hard to recall because so many of the people who rise to the level of getting threads commit fraud by crowdfunding. It's their thing. You can count on it happening sooner rather than later.

STTE, nobody said they those individuals committed crimes. They were just funny or horrifying in a schadenfreude-ish way. This is what I mean by hyperbole. Perhaps it wasn't a good idea after all to make "You all want us dead" and "You hate us for existing" into major memes of the movement. You can fool some of the people, etc ...

@SecretTransTwitterEngineer

Perhaps you want to weigh in on the vile,threatening, violent messages relentlessly posted online against GC women and lesbians (as in same-sex attraction)

Perhaps you are unaware of www.terfisaslur.com which is a compendium of these hated filled images and comments.

Many of these violent messages are on twitter yet twitter remains? Why is that?

direct link

terfisaslur.com/

From what I remember, Sagal had a crowdfunder running for surgery to remove metal fragments after a car crash - turned out it was for gender reassignment surgery?