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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Antipodean fruit grower statement

1000 replies

nothingcomestonothing · 27/08/2022 13:44

The antipodean fruit growers site is down. A statement from the owner reads in part:

What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [redacted by me as would be against MN talk guidelines] while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which criticizes [redacted], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

Posted for info.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/09/2022 15:49

I quite agree, Marg.

ArabellaScott · 06/09/2022 15:58

Wow. Genuinely pleased to hear you say that, Marg.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 06/09/2022 16:07

Noone should be subject to harassment or threats regardless what their views are

quite right

TheClogLady · 06/09/2022 16:09

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 06/09/2022 16:07

Noone should be subject to harassment or threats regardless what their views are

quite right

Absolutely.

very important stuff.

CousinKrispy · 06/09/2022 16:44

Yes, that's a very good point.

No one should be subject to harassment or threats, no matter what their views.

kittensinthekitchen · 06/09/2022 17:58

MargaritaPie · 06/09/2022 15:15

"If a user of Kiwi Farms ends up committing suicide off the back of the harassment campaign and threatens to dox all and any KF users"

I've been following the topic the past couple of days including watching a live video stream with chat last night by someone who wishes KF to close which had about 4,000 viewers. I've never seen any threats (doxxing threats or otherwise) made against KF users or its owner anywhere, I just see a lot of people who care about the safety and welfare of LGBT people, and have a shared interest in de-platforming communities who organise hate campaigns which could threaten people's safety and cause harm to people.

I know views differ, this is just how I see it.

Oh, there has been! I'm sure you'll be able to find them.

But let's just go with your version of events and play this hypothetically....

If a user of Kiwi Farms was to end up committing suicide off the back of the harassment campaign and threatens to dox all and any KF users, made by Keffals and their mob - would that be considered and publicised as a suicide "caused by the transgender community"?

Bosky · 06/09/2022 21:01

A couple of YouTube clips from a longer interview posted above, in which J Moon is interviewed by “Rekieta Law”, relevant to recent posts:

KW & Keffals - what harassment is and who’s harassing who

The Suicides of KW Explained

Hoga · 06/09/2022 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheClogLady · 06/09/2022 23:25

From Null’s telegram (I censored one word to ensure it was Mumsnet compliant. The word generally means ‘idiot’ in this particular context so it’s not a trans related insult, it’s just an Americanism that isn’t considered PC):

Antipodean fruit grower statement
Antipodean fruit grower statement
Bosky · 06/09/2022 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

The most marginal, vulnerable and oppressed said that was their next target. Is there any more proof needed that this is not about KF per se but about erasing the evidence that KF had curated?

The Internet Archive should be ashamed of itself. It agrees to remove specific web pages on request - but whole sites??

There is some powerful clout being wielded here.

ArabellaScott · 06/09/2022 23:35

This reply has been deleted

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They fucking WHAT

MissPollysFitDolly · 06/09/2022 23:54

There is some powerful clout being wielded here.

Yes, it's quite disturbing.

MargaritaPie · 07/09/2022 00:19

"Wayback Machine has wiped Kiwifarms from the internet archive."

The reason I've heard for this (unverified at present) is to protect victims who were doxxed on KF. To give them peace of mind incase anyone were to look at archived pages of KF and stumble across their personal info

kittensinthekitchen · 07/09/2022 00:42

MargaritaPie · 07/09/2022 00:19

"Wayback Machine has wiped Kiwifarms from the internet archive."

The reason I've heard for this (unverified at present) is to protect victims who were doxxed on KF. To give them peace of mind incase anyone were to look at archived pages of KF and stumble across their personal info

And where, pray tell, did you 'hear' that?

For someone who didn't have a clue about KF a few days back, you sure have gotten deep into this.

This is all bullshit.

TheClogLady · 07/09/2022 00:50

I know this phrase is overused right now but surely purging an entire website’s history from the wayback machine is Orwellian?

BattyOrange · 07/09/2022 00:56

This is all bullshit. - Yep.

sleepwbutterflies · 07/09/2022 01:02

Marg, just no. You're not supposed to believe the lies the media tells you. Especially when they're covering for themselves.

There is in fact clout being wielded. By one Taylor Lorenz, a WaPo reporter. She's the one who doxxed LibsOfTikTok and showed up at the homes of her relatives "to ask questions."

Taylor has a thread on the Farms, with good reason. She's quite a history of erratic and questionable behavior. Seems like the spoiled rich kid character in the story. Taylor helped Ben Collins write one of the major hit pieces on the farms, which of course canonized Clara. Taylor was able to have her own dirt scrubbed from the internet archives. Some people wondered how. Taylor's uncle founded the TV News portion of the internet archives - an amazing coincidence!

They appear to be pretty close, Roger Macdonald and his neice Taylor. We know this because he left a loving tweet on her Twitter about how proud he is of here. Roger's Twitter is locked now. But, poetically, there are archives. So, Taylor is a lolcow, she has the clout to scrub the archive, and she's involved in the Clara situation. She's also known to be haughty and vindictive.

dicktracyonline.substack.com/p/who-is-taylor-lorenz

I'll leave the rest to you all. I know this because of the farms. Pretty useful site, actually.

kittensinthekitchen · 07/09/2022 01:03

TheClogLady · 07/09/2022 00:50

I know this phrase is overused right now but surely purging an entire website’s history from the wayback machine is Orwellian?

Yep if someone says something you don't like, they can just cease to exist.

Where does it end?

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 07/09/2022 01:34

Yep if someone says something you don't like, they can just cease to exist
It's not "ceasing people to exist" what a load of hyperbolic nonsense.
You haven't "gone" anywhere, you're still there and haven't puuffted into oblivion. 🙄
Just, with your viewpoint, I could say where does it end?
"People say something you don't like" that can be used to minimise and justify an awful lot, including any extremist views
I'm OK with them views disappearing from being easily accessible so they can't spread fear, incite others etc

Bosky · 07/09/2022 01:35

MargaritaPie · 07/09/2022 00:19

"Wayback Machine has wiped Kiwifarms from the internet archive."

The reason I've heard for this (unverified at present) is to protect victims who were doxxed on KF. To give them peace of mind incase anyone were to look at archived pages of KF and stumble across their personal info

That would be Overkill to the power of n.

You can‘t search the Internet Archive for a random name.You have to know precisely which page it is on and enter the URL for that page or trawl through all the archived pages for a site.

I have seen posts on Twitter from people despairing that the evidence that they were sexually abused was captured by KF and that they relied on it being archived. No doubt the perpetrators, and there were many documented by KF, are delighted that the Internet Archive sides with abusers.

If anyone wanted the Internet Archive to remove a page where they were “doxed” they only needed to request removal of that page.

A whole website?? I agree with TheClogLady - Orwellian.

I have seen suggestions that the “trans angle” is just a pretext for public consumption and that the real reason this campaign of erasure has been so successful is to delete embarrassing information about politicians ahead of the next US election.

I don‘t know which is worse. Either way, it is bad news not most for the possible reasons but for what it exposes about the control of information today. ie. He who controls the past controls the future.

The Dark Web might be an escape route for the moment but there are Banks and mainstream media sites on there, just like the Clear Net. People with power and influence who want to keep it that way by memory-holing inconvenient information.

Bosky · 07/09/2022 01:46

sleepwbutterflies · 07/09/2022 01:02

Marg, just no. You're not supposed to believe the lies the media tells you. Especially when they're covering for themselves.

There is in fact clout being wielded. By one Taylor Lorenz, a WaPo reporter. She's the one who doxxed LibsOfTikTok and showed up at the homes of her relatives "to ask questions."

Taylor has a thread on the Farms, with good reason. She's quite a history of erratic and questionable behavior. Seems like the spoiled rich kid character in the story. Taylor helped Ben Collins write one of the major hit pieces on the farms, which of course canonized Clara. Taylor was able to have her own dirt scrubbed from the internet archives. Some people wondered how. Taylor's uncle founded the TV News portion of the internet archives - an amazing coincidence!

They appear to be pretty close, Roger Macdonald and his neice Taylor. We know this because he left a loving tweet on her Twitter about how proud he is of here. Roger's Twitter is locked now. But, poetically, there are archives. So, Taylor is a lolcow, she has the clout to scrub the archive, and she's involved in the Clara situation. She's also known to be haughty and vindictive.

dicktracyonline.substack.com/p/who-is-taylor-lorenz

I'll leave the rest to you all. I know this because of the farms. Pretty useful site, actually.

Very interesting.

It doesn’t explain the capitulation of Cloud Flare and all the other providers though, down to the services that provided Captcha for Log In to KF.

That article is on Substack, which the most oppressed tried to have shut down as soon as it started up and they have got it in their sights again, along with the whole of Mumsnet of course.

We’re going to be back to Pigeon Post and flashing Morse Code from beacon to beacon if they had their way.

sleepwbutterflies · 07/09/2022 01:57

The next election provides excellent motivation for this latest experiment in censorship, but it's worse than that. It's not just the next election. It's just sort of ... everything that the establishment wants control of. Politicians don't want their dirt to be searchable, that's true. Elements of the establishment don't want elections to be swayed by any populist movement. Those people are being demonized now by the president himself, along with the whole left. The majority of people don't want anyone to have the option of questioning the authorities on guidelines, or mandates, related to pandemics.

The media has been agitating and hand-wringing 24/7 since 2016 about "dangerous" "misinformation", "russian disinformation", and "fake news" that threatens no less than democracy and the public health. In other words, people are talking too much online. The news media beating this drum for six year means we are being acclimated to accept as just, broad editorial control over the entire clearnet. They don't beat drums if they aren't working on or at least brainstorming a solution. But this development is quite advanced now. Part of the FBI is dipping it's toes in the water right now, for some reason. This is how new agencies are incubated - they usually grow out of some predecessor.

Perhaps one day soon there will be a dedicated agency for making sure the internet doesn't harm us. An actual Ministry of Information. Except it will be named something essential to our well being. Something nurturing. You know. Like a protective big brother.

NecessaryScene · 07/09/2022 06:56

Glenn Greenwald's been out of action for a month, due to his husband being in intensive care, but he came back to do a long Twitter thread on the topic - it's rather his specialist area, so I've been waiting for his take.

Best to read Twitter thread, cos it's got all the proper links and screenshots of everything he's talking about (including KF and Boston's Children Hospital), rather than just being the wall of text I'm pasting below.

twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1567290905039708160

The regime of censorship being imposed on the internet – by a consortium of DC Dems, billionaire-funded "disinformation experts," the US Security State, and liberal employees of media corporations – is dangerously intensifying in ways I believe are not adequately understood.

A series of "crises" have been cynically and aggressively exploited to inexorably restrict the range of permitted views, and expand pretexts for online silencing and deplatforming. Trump's election, Russiagate, 1/6, COVID and war in Ukraine all fostered new methods of repression.

During the failed attempt in January to force Spotify to remove Joe Rogan, the country's most popular podcaster – remember that? – I wrote that the current religion of Western liberals in politics and media is censorship: their prime weapon of activism.

But that Rogan failure only strengthened their repressive campaigns. Dems routinely abuse their majoritarian power in DC to explicitly coerce Big Tech silencing of their opponents and dissent. This is Govt censorship disguised as corporate autonomy.

There's now an entire new industry, aligned with Dems, to pressure Big Tech to censor. Think tanks and self-proclaimed "disinformation experts" funded by Omidyar, Soros and the US/UK Security State use benign-sounding names to glorify ideological censorship as neutral expertise.

The worst, most vile arm of this regime are the censorship-mad liberal employees of big media corporations (Ben Collins, Brandy Zadrozny, Taylor Lorenz, NYT tech unit). Masquerading as "journalists," they align with the scummiest Dem groups (Media Matters) to silence and deplatform.

It is astonishing to watch Dems and their allies in media corporations posture as opponents of "fascism" - while their main goal is to unite state and corporate power to censor their critics and degrade the internet into an increasingly repressive weapon of information control.

A major myth that must be quickly dismantled: political censorship is not the by-product of autonomous choices of Big Tech companies.

This is happening because DC Dems and the US Security State are threatening reprisals if they refuse. They're explicit:

But the worst is watching people whose job title in corporate HR Departments is "journalist" take the lead in agitating for censorship. They exploit the platforms of corporate giants to pioneer increasingly dangerous means of banning dissenters. These are the authoritarians.

This is the frog-in-boiling-water problem: the increase in censorship is gradual but continuous, preventing recognition of how severe it's become. The EU now legally mandates censorship of Russian news. They've made it illegal for companies to air it.

So many new tactics of censorship repression have emerged in the West: Trudeau freezing bank accounts of tucker-protesters; Paypal partnering with ADL to ban dissidents from the financial system; Big Tech platforms openly colluding in unison to de-person people from the internet.

All of this stems from the classic mentality of all would-be tyrants: our enemies are so dangerous, their views so threatening, that everything we do – lying, repression, censorship – is noble. That's what made the Sam Harris confession so vital: that's how liberal elites think.

This is why I regard the Hunter Biden scandal as uniquely alarming. The media didn't just "bury" the archive.

CIA concocted a lie about it (it's "Russian disinformation"); media outlets spread that lie; Big Tech censured it -- because lying and repression to them is justified!

The authoritarian mentality that led CIA, corporate media and Big Tech to lie about the Biden archive before the election is the same driving this new censorship craze. It's the hallmark of all tyranny: "our enemies are so evil and dangerous, anything is justified to stop them."

How come not one media outlet that spread this CIA lie – the Hunter Biden archive was "Russian disinformation" – retracted or apologized? This is why: they believe they are so benevolent, their cause so just, that lying and censorship are benevolent.

The one encouraging aspect: as so often happens with despotic factions, they are triggering and fueling the backlash to their excesses. Sites devoted to free speech – led by Rumble, along with Substack, Callin, and others – are exploding in growth.

But as these free speech platforms grow and become a threat, the efforts to crush them also grow – exactly as AOC, other Dems and their corporate media allies successfully demanded Google, Apple and Amazon destroy Parler when it became the single most-popular app in the country.

It is hard to overstate how much pressure is now brought to bear by liberal censors on these free speech platforms, especially Rumble. Their vendors are threatened. Their hosting companies targeted. They have accounts cancelled and firms refusing to deal with them. It's a regime.

It's not melodrama or hyperbole to say: what we have is a war in the West, a war over whether the internet will be free, over whether dissent will be allowed, over whether we will live in the closed propaganda system our elites claim The Bad Countries™ impose. It's no different.

In even the most despotic nations, the banal, conformist citizen thinks they're free. As Rosa Luxemburg said: "he who does not move, does not feel his chains."

Of course the Chris Hayes's and Don Lemon's think this is all absurd: Good Liberals threaten nobody and thus flourish.

The measure of societal freedom is not how servants of power are treated: they're always left alone or rewarded. The key metric is how dissidents are treated. Now, they are imprisoned (Assange), exiled (Snowden) and, above all, silenced by corporate/state power (dissidents).

For more than a month, I've removed myself from the news cycle and The Discourse because my only priority right now is my family, my kids and my husband's health. But distance brings clarity.

This censorship mania consuming Western liberals is deeply dangerous -- and growing.

As I've often said, the media outlets screaming most loudly about "disinformation" are the ones that spread it most frequently, casually and destructively (NBC/CNN/WPost, etc).

It's equally true of those now claiming to fight "fascism": real repression comes from them.

I'm going to remain detached until the health crisis in our family is resolved. But internet freedom and free speech are not ancillary causes. They are central. This was the core cause of the Snowden reporting.

Without a free internet and free speech, dissent is an illusion.

Above all, stay focused on who your real enemies are.

They're not your neighbors who have been deceived into supporting the wrong party or wrong ideology. They are victims of the repression, which is all about maintaining a closed system of propaganda that can't be challenged.

The worst of all - the most repugnant and despicable - are those calling themselves "journalists" while doing the opposite of what that term implies: they serve rather than challenge power, they deceive rather than inform, they demand censorship rather than free and open inquiry.

Heap scorn on the corporate outlets and their deceitful, pro-censorship employees abusing the "journalist" label. Read them with full skepticism, or just ignore them.

Support outlets and platforms that want to protect free inquiry and the right of dissent, not rob you of it.

NecessaryScene · 07/09/2022 07:10

Oh, and to continue with my "lazily just link to other people's work" streak, the Corinna Cohn Twitter thread above has become a full Substack article now:

The world should not need Kiwi Farms

I'll maybe write something myself once I've had some coffee...

kittensinthekitchen · 07/09/2022 07:23

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 07/09/2022 01:34

Yep if someone says something you don't like, they can just cease to exist
It's not "ceasing people to exist" what a load of hyperbolic nonsense.
You haven't "gone" anywhere, you're still there and haven't puuffted into oblivion. 🙄
Just, with your viewpoint, I could say where does it end?
"People say something you don't like" that can be used to minimise and justify an awful lot, including any extremist views
I'm OK with them views disappearing from being easily accessible so they can't spread fear, incite others etc

Kiwifarms will cease to exist. Any actual proof of who they were will cease to exist. All that will remain is the (false) narrative of what someone else wants you to think. A ten year history will be rewritten, with no means of defense. Doesn't that worry you?

If there was illegal, extremist activity on Kiwifarms, deal with that, take legal action where necessary, but to just erase an entire ten year history? That is extremist. Why?

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