Let Women Swim

[IcakethereforeIam]

Just seen this article on the Critic about women only swimming sessions. Apparently, there's going to be a meeting at the Ladies Pond in London on Saturday 27th August regarding the decision to let men self I'd into the space.

I've not seen a thread on this.

thecritic.co.uk/let-women-swim/

www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/ladies-pond-protest-9240586

reported on in local press. Us TERFs just ain’t loving enough apparently…

Look at the comments! Uniformly polite, clear explanations. Not a single world of unloving, unkind transphobia.

Except, of course, that to even contemplate the rights and needs of women is transphobic.

Comments are great. I remember the "Ham and High" covered some other feminist event in a biased way.

Didn't that City of London bloke bin all the responses to the survey that weren't in line with his thinking?

Nicked from Twitter.

Kenwood Ladies Pond Association are just silencing women left, right and centre on Facebook - it's horrible to watch. Every thread is just being deleted (including the Sex Matters link). We've been told to take our debate elsewhere.

It's absolutely shocking.

And reported by a man in Ham and High, unfortunately I couldn't see the comments, but you would have though that H&H would have sent a woman to cover it given that it's a woman's protest about need a single-sex female space returned to them.

When the only way you can manage to be 'right' is to erase the evidence and block anyone saying anything otherwise, you'd think it would dawn that you're doing something dodgy.

But then this whole agenda boils down to feelings create reality, there are personal realities, and not enabling some personal realities with nasty things like facts, and impact on others, is unacceptably 'mean'. (But ignoring and excluding everyone with a problem isn't.)

Given that there have just been arrests made as a police officer was groped at Notting Hill Carnival, surely this would be inappropriate in front of a child? Would it be illegal?

WtF sexual assault of 2 police officers? On duty and uniform, both women (of course, sigh).

I suspect that proving the intent element would be the prosecution's problem.
The intent was to sexually assault the officers not to involve spectators so asking a jury to determine a secondry motive would be a stretch.
I think the 2 incident as reported would not result in a conviction.
Where as if it were 2 consenting adults the jury decide is asked to decide on when a PDA crosses the line according to their personal code of conduct.

Not excusing the actions of the group of men but imo this demonstrates the harm of crossing boundries from clearly policing an event and allowing officers to participate in "fun" events as an official duty. And female officer's will be targeted more than male officers.

Well, to be honest, I had a case closed within an hour for a similar occurrence of sexual assault after a man forced himself into my home, groped me and stuck his tongue into my mouth several times before I could push him out the door. There was CCTV, a name, ID, and a car registration plate but apparently that was not enough evidence.

So the police thing to me demonstrates they are looking after their own, but not so much for other women. No woman should be assaulted but why are the police not doing more for those of us who aren't in uniform?

Anyway, KLPA have now restricted posts in the group to moderator approved. It is so sad to see. Women have regularly complained about the recent pervert that has been hanging around down the lane and this was allowed, yet it's acceptable we have penis flashed in our face when changing as long as they say they are self IDing as a woman.

I used to go to the ladies pond a lot but I doubt I will again except in winter when it is likely to be very quiet. I really appreciated the hidden women-only atmosphere and the lack of leisure centre style regimentation - which has completely gone now since covid, timed slots only (nothing to do with any TRA / TERF tension). No matter the outcome, and of course I hope that women retain the pond, the whole thing has been spoilt by being dragged into ugly, public arguments.

I don't blame Let Women Swim for this; the alternative would have been to just be quiet and docile and lose everything. But I feel as if I had rightfully inherited a beautiful precious object from a beloved ancestor which turned out to be valuable, and someone else has got hold of it and has their lawyers onto fighting me for it. I'd rather let it go, although the people who do have the stomach for the fight are doing the right thing and fighting for the others who come after, who will only inherit it in their turn if our generation do the fighting.

The sad thing is, the people who are fighting so hard to get it, don't even know why it is precious and what its unreplaceable value even really is. If they did, they wouldn't have started the fight, they wouldn't have dreamed of destroying it in this way.

@trytopullyoursocksup I feel exactly the same, my partner's great grandmother swam in that pond, mine did as well. It does feel like a huge loss.

It's not going anywhere. If you really can't stand being in the same place as someone who might be a trans woman you're welcome to stay at home or build your own swimming pool.

Would it be possible to set up a FB group for the women of the Kenwood Ladies Pond Association - one where the voices of women are not silenced? Maybe one already exists.

Well aren’t you a charmer ... what a bloody nerve
Why the hell should women give up something they enjoy because of entitled men? Bugger off with your ridiculous misogynistic nonsense!

I find the behaviour of the KLPA one of the saddest thing about all this. You dont have to go very far back to see them firmly extolling the importance of it being a woman only space & it’s quite clear they mean the cunty type of women. They’ve legally challenged city of London about the rise in charges but on this most basic & fundamental issue, complete capitulation. Shameful

Hearach perfectly good mens or mixed pool. You have those alternatives. So yes we are going to insist that you are not welcome in the women only one. We are not going to stay home just so you can indulge your…..self

Translation

Male rights are the only rights that matter.

Yes, we've heard this sentiment before. Basically, you demand that the entire world be welcomimg and accommodating of male transitioners and stipulate that female people aren't allowed any of the world for their sole use.

No.

If the male pool is trans-exclusionary and excludes males who don't present in a masculine way, address it with the males there. In the meantime, there is a "mixed pool", which you could term a gender-neutral pool. Go there.

If you really can't stand being in the same place as someone who might be a trans woman you're welcome to stay at home or build your own swimming pool.

I see the usual bad faith take here and the continuation of the denial that there are times when sex matters.

It's not going anywhere. If you really can't stand being in the same place as someone who might be a trans woman you're welcome to stay at home or build your own swimming pool.

What would be the point? Men would only take it for themselves. They take everything from women that isn't nailed down. I can't imagine why women sometimes want to get away from these people, can you?

^I don't see why someone's
religion, which I don't even
believe in, should result in me
losing my human rights. You can
believe what you want but don't
start forcing it on others^

I don't believe in your religion, Katy, so I don't see why it should result in me losing my human rights. You can believe what you want but don't start forcing it on others.

Let me spell it out for you, Katy, dignity and safety are human rights. Forcing yourself upon another person, even without bodily contact, is not a human right. Taking away their dignity and threatening their safety are not human rights.

It is women whose human rights are at stake here, not male people.