Drag Queen Robert Clothier convicted (TW)

[achillestoes]

A drag queen named Robert Clothier (stage name Lady James) arranged a ‘liaison’ with a man and his two young children, for the purposes of a sexual encounter with the man and to assault/rape the children. It was a police sting. He has just been convicted and sentenced to 26 months in prison.

There is a difference of category between pantomime dames and modern ‘drag queens’. This isn’t theatre culture or acting; it’s a lifestyle, and a sexualised one.

I hope he serves every day of that time.

I can't see this video, the last one was about Brighton and she's just finished a live stream.

She's deleted it.

Ok, I can see you are sure. Thanks for explaining. I’ll be more aware of that trick in the future.

I may have been confused about what I’d read. about Posie Parker then, unless it was someone else. As I remember she/ someone had made a chart of every DSD and someone had posted, I think, to say she was being offensive. With the new format I can’t search for threads easily now. Anyway, thank you for the correction.

I see I had a message deleted for explaining the distorted message about diversity Drag Queens are actually sending to children about gay men, transgender people and women.

Evidently a performance is now personified and comes under the Equalities Act.

I had not criticised gay men, or transgender men, or women. I had criticised the way drag queens ‘ perform’ them and the warped message they are thereby passing on to children about them.

I don’t know about the DSD thing but anyway you probably shouldn’t take my word for it about Posie, opinions vary and you’re allowed to have your own! But yes, I’m pretty sure about the other thing! I think you come to recognise the writing style.

The deletions lately are completely out of hand. I wonder what’s going on. Enthusiastic new lurker reporting everything?

People have been talking about Tate all day on twitter. Some people on there would love it if they could garnish the discussion with screenshots of mumsnetters approving of him.

Ah, well. He has been dismissed here now!

I'd never heard of him before last week, the youtube algorithm served me up the drag queen video linked too.

Who?

DarkDayforMN · Today 18:46

This is a detail just to clear up some confusion.

Now I have found the thread I was trying to remember about ‘Posie Parker or someone else’ who, I had picked up, was going too far. It was someone else: Exulanistic. I apologise for the confusion.
Exulansic has reduced following?
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4494001-Exulansic-has-reduced-following.

This was the post in that thread I had in mind as my mind as a reason, as I usually respect this poster’s views.

“WarriorN · 01/03/2022 12:35
Agree with screaming.

She's been vile to people with dsds and encouraged pile ons. This led to Claire Graham resigning from dsdfamilies.

The whole bullshit she's been spouting is damaging for feminism as well as anyone who has a dsd. Baring in mind some teen girls only find out when periods don't start.

Andrew Tate:

www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

”In July, there were more Google searches for his name than for Donald Trump or Kim Kardashian.

His rapid surge to fame was not by chance. Evidence obtained by the Observer shows that followers of Tate are being told to flood social media with videos of him, choosing the most controversial clips in order to achieve maximum views and engagement.”

Any group or person who continues to demand access to children, despite protests from mothers, is exactly the kind of human to be very, very wary of.

@Ladybrrrd and @Alala2809

I saw your posts with the more Art side of drag but didn't get a chance to reply. I know the thread moved on but it was good to see elements of drag that don't really come up in the Drag Night / Drag Queen Story Time market.

I agree there are people performing as Drag acts who are doing something very different to the various interpretations/portrayals/caricatures of womanhood, often risque, that for want of a better term I'll call "classic drag"

What is the common theme between the acts who are closer to performance art and the acts in "classic drag" that make them the same art form?

That is a genuine question - I'm wondering what makes the artists you posted Drag, while someone like Lee Bull (www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-modern/display/performer-and-participant/lee-bul) or Rebecca Horn is not www.marthagarzon.com/contemporary_art/2012/07/rebecca-horn-body-art-performance-installations/. It seems to me that the examples you gave have more in common with performance artists than commercial drag acts. Is it that there is a musical/singing element? A first person narrative/character?

(It doesn't have to be black and white answer by the way.)

I suggest you watch 'Paris is burning'

Seconded, it's excellent.

@Ladybrrrd · Today 10:20

Thank you for your long post explaining Drag. It is very informative and adds a lot to understanding it.

Good post. But absolutely none of this makes drag ok for children. It reinforces the fact that it's an adult expression. An intensely personal adult expression of how sexy a man feels or looks whilst performing womanhood or feminity.
This should not be sold to children on the same level as the pantomime dames. They might be a performance but they are not children performers.

Not introducing yourself as "camp" (urgh, that word used to differentiate from the "macho" men. Why can't men just accept each other? ) has not removed the intensely personal part of this show which does not come off when the show is over unlike all other forms of acting!

@Ladybrrrd made an excellent, interesting and informed post about the history of drag and the ballroom scene in New York and someone reported it.

This place is pathetic.

Oh come on! @Ladybrrrd 's post was a valid contribution to the topic.

@Ladybrrrd I read it and appreciated it. I was waiting till later today to reply properly. I realise how galling it is to lose a long post made in good faith but if you do feel like making the same points again I will be happy to carry on the conversation. I will also watch the documentary you recommended.

Wow okay, I'm not sure why my post was deleted? That's weird. I didn't attack anyone? Can I ask MNHQ?

As for the children, the drag story time (they've removed the 'queen' wording because they have King's now too.) is not sexy. They don't wear risque outfits, they don't make risque jokes. They just wear sparkles and read children's books to children. The children aren't coming to see the drag shows you're thinking of. Aida H Dee, the founder of the shows in the UK, wears a long rainbow dress. FlowJob, who shortened her name to Flow with the children, wore a long maxi dress and cardigan. Could the children google 'drag' afterwards and be met with inappropriate content? Maybe. But I'm sure the parents aren't letting them on the net unsupervised. Or I hope so. Believe it or not, the performances are different dependant on the audience. What the children get to see is someone showing that you can wear what you like and be yourself.

Excellent post.

Why the hell was that post deleted?

Believe it or not, the performances are different dependant on the audience

Yes. In the same way that Lily Savage had different acts for adults and kids.

Not sure why your other post was deleted. That's a bit daft?

Anyway, I've mentioned my main problem with drag for children before. It isn't acting. The persona does not truly come off.

The children have to participate in the belief. I don't lie to my children about santa. They know he isn't real from a very early age. He is a man or woman in a santa outfit.
Can I, in all honesty tell my child that drag is a person in a costume? Only acting out? That the persona is not real? It is all make believe?

And in reality, the persona that walks out of the door reverts to the one who doesn't just think of themselves as sexy, they are wearing sexy! So if I say it's a costume, what do I tell them about who is wearing it?

Drag may not talk about sex during the session but this isn't just any other performance for kids! If I can't in all honesty tell my child that it's just a costume then we've entered the zone of a belief system.

What do I tell them about who is wearing it?

You might tell them that the person wearing it is an individual. That there is a variety of people who wear the costume. They might be a man like Paul O Grady, who isn't all that flamboyant out of costume. They might be a biological woman who enjoys dressing up. They might be a man who enjoys wearing make up and glitter when they're not in a costume. They might be a transwoman. Drag performers are not a Borg. They are not all about sex, and won't make it about that to kids. They're about fun and silliness and flamboyance.

The great thing about Drag Story time is that you could ask the performers these questions, about who they are off stage, and get a personal answer. You'd get to show the kids that everyone is an individual.