Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

[aseriesofstillimages]

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

Lesbianism, the only sexual activity involving exclusively female bodies.
How can males, legally, morally and ethically either participate or voice their opinions?

Asking for a friend.

Or as framed by the op, "why do you have something against my innocent male counterparts taking part in this uniquely female sexual activity? it is legal, moral and ethical (because i said so). They just want sex with this appeasing label. "

Homophobic tripe.

And yes 'language' makes all the difference.

There is a woman in one of the Australian states taking her state government to court because they created a law that makes it impossible for lesbians to meet and exclude males if they say they are lesbians.

Maybe OP is all for that law.... that no group of lesbians can ever meet without having to be open to males dictated by law.... because the language has been redefined by people who feel they are righteous and did so without full consultation. Because there was no government consultation on that change there...

Yes well said @MissingLesbianSpaces.

Homophobia against lesbians alive and well in 2022, and they call this progressive, liberal and tolerant?

It involves habits that are somewhat obsessive and not entirely physically healthy and I find those things to be a big turn off.

Meh. I'm a bodybuilder and I think my habits are super healthy. Obsessive? Maybe ..... but that's what competitive sport entails.

But the one thing you can be sure of is ..... that I'm a woman. Muscular build? Yes. Shaved head? Yes. But a blind man in a dark room could tell you I'm a woman. Nothing at all about me screams 'male'.

I am not a lesbian, but I am furious on behalf of every lesbian who has to face this sort of homophobia, masquerading as tolerance and inclusivity.

Gosh!

I mean, I am not a lesbian, so I am not qualified to answer for them.

But, I think if you are a woman who is attracted to someone who is obviously a male or who has a penis, you don't really qualify as a lesbian, in the sense that you don't meet the conditions for what many other women will be looking for in other women.

I mean, you can identify yourself as one and very few people are going to point it out to you and redefine what your relationship is to your female partner (because women are generally kind and polite to people).

BUT, you shouldn't really assume you'll be welcome on a lesbian speed dating night, for example, unless invited. AND it will never be anything other than ok for a lesbian to decide that she doesn't want to sleep with you.

The issue for lesbians is that if they say "yes, of course, lesbianism is a nice umbrella club" three they will be pressured into sleeping with trans women. And that is wrong. Always.

Why is someone allowed to call themselves a lesbian when born a man, but not allowed to be a women who knows she absolutely does not want to be with someone who was born a man (excluding thought experiments about women who sleep with trans women unknowingly, because that just doesn't apply in the vast majority of cases)?

As an older cranky lesbian I hear the being 'fooled' trope so many times. Here is the reality in my experience

1. I see a beautiful girl across the uni quad..sylph-like body,.long hair etc Mmm,yes...she turns around. It's a 20something male. I'm just out and panic...am I really bi? I stop myself emoting and mentally undress him to his naked male body. All desire dies. Not bi.
2. There is this ugly short middle-aged woman at my lesbian social group. After a few visits, she brags about her new expensive car, picking up girls at a bar, and more all about 'things' , nothing like the emotions, experiences, feelings (sometimes oversharing!) the other women in my group do. I think: is she really a man. I think so just from her behavior. Next meeting she comes in yelling "I cut my penis off."

This is the reality of my lived experiences as a same-sex attracted woman.

I'm not a lesbian. But I certainly wouldn't be attracted to a woman who dressed as a man. I'm attracted to men. Men. Not women dressed as men. The whole 'concept' to use the OP's word is ludicrous. I suspect the OP has fucked off to quietly digest the new found knowledge that theys a homophobe and a men's rights activist. Not the right on liberal they fashioned themselves to be.

Of course she hasn't, she's gone off to say what a bunch of far right irreconcilable extremists we are. No doubt she came with hope in her heart that we'd suddenly see the light and understand... that women aren't female. But I'm never going to understand that because it's not true.

It's all so weird I still can't really understand how we got here.

She'll pop up again, she's been on a few threads, and seems to ask similar questions, so it's a little surprising that she hasn't yet grasped what it actually is that we do think about sex and gender identity.

Is there a word that describes me in the new gender ideology world? Im a heterosexual in old money. What am I called now? Again, attracted to men NOT women dressed as men. Or am I expected to pretend that I might be attracted to a woman dressed in a suit or baseball cap or whatever a man would stereotypically wear?

I once was chatting up a cute butch and then when she was talking about herself, used the pronoun 'he' and mentioned her exclusive male bro pals', all my desire just dried up and I cancelled our plans. When she asked I told her why and that I loved women; butch women, feminine women, androgynous women...I've dated all types.
but women who want to be men; no thank you.

So I have strong boundaries that exclude all men, men who want to be women and women who want to be men. And I'm fine with that!

Yeah, I totally get that. Im certain I could never fancy a man who wanted to be a woman. My husband is hardly a man's man. But the idea of a man wanting to be a woman is a huuugggge turn off. I'm assuming this is bigoted to admit?!!!!! The idea that a woman might say no to a man will probably get this post deleted. 🤐

I agree.

I hold my hands up that I am Gender Critical, I'm sure there's a whole host of people who would call me a TERF. My husband on the other hand is very very liberal and 'nice' he wants to be kind to everyone and accept that what they say they are is what they are, he thinks my concerns about the erosion of womens rights, Lesbian and Gay rights and safeguarding for children are over reactions. We've had many talks and it's one of the few areas I'm not sure we will ever agree.

I was very clear when I told him that I am attracted to Men, I am not a Lesbian and could never be in a marriage with him if he ever decided to transition. That that would be hard line for me. I see women as attractive, I love my female friends but I am not sexually attracted to women and even less so for men identifying as women.

He still says that TWAW so a transwoman attracted to women is a Lesbian, I explain that my view is that they are heterosexual, he disagrees and we end up in a 3 Hr heated debate that twists in every direction.

Would he, if single, have a sexual relationship with a male person who identifies as female?

Nope, I’ve been coming back periodically to read and think about the responses, and whether there was anything further I could say that would be worth the effort of typing.

But I really struggle with why GC people would want to tell a woman - a lesbian - who is in a relationship with a trans woman that they are wrong to consider themselves a lesbian.

But the definition of lesbian is women in a same sex relationship. If one of them is male then they're not a lesbian.

There are certainly many people here who I recognise i don’t hold the faintest hope of shifting their views one iota. Chances are I won’t change anyone’s views. But occasionally someone says they appreciate my coming and putting my views in a polite and thoughtful manner. Surely it’s healthy to have a voice or in this place that doesn’t agree?

Sexuality is not a matter of opinion. You seem to be really confused by that.

Homosexuality - same sex attracted
Heterosexuality - opposite sex attracted
Bisexuality- attracted to both sexes

HTH

If it's a voice of someone who can explain their POV well, sure

Just woolying on about lesbians who go out with male people is a bit... offensive? Contrarian and insensitive anyway

It clearly is a matter of opinion though, at least as to where trans people fit in, given how many people disagree on this topic.

Lesbians who date trans women would consider it is you, not me, being offensive, or insensitive.

See, that's what I mean.
They aren't lesbians.
I'm rubber, you're glue isn't really the kind of engagement I come on to MN for tbh.

It's like when people wang on about 'bi dykes'.
Nothing to so with trans identity etc.
But insensitive to lesbians who see the term dyke as culturally important and having a specific meaning.