Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

@FunnyTalks
Funny how the ones crying "prude" when we point out a desire to not be made vulnerable to sexual assault are also the ones so keen to police our behaviour and mannerisms as not being sufficiently ladylike.
Well, yes.
We are thinking for ourselves, the very horror, and must be controlled.

Sorry Fraaahnces, that should have ended with

Could be where you are and how updated your changing areas are. All the places I went were older and probably due for renovation.

I don't see the problem with another woman in the changing room. Unless they are a criminal, which could apply to anyone. Is everyone CRB checked?

I believe a PP said that transwomen in biological women’s changing rooms sometimes get “innocent erections” which needs to be ignored or you are a bigot, but there might be some erections which are bad?

Yes that was a particular highlight of the thread.

I don't see the problem with another woman in the changing room.

This isn't about another woman using the changing room, obviously that wouldn't be a problem as it's a female space.

Frankly I am sick and tired of all these women who are claiming that they use mixed sex communal changing areas when it is very clear that they do not.

No, you go to a place which provides single sex provision.

I use the Acquatics Centre in London and all the changing rooms are mixed.

By changing room you mean that the circulation areas to and from the private single sex cubicle.

You get into a private single sex cubicle to change of course because you would not willing to change in a public mixed sex communal changing area, but but there are no separate mixed sex open communal changing rooms for men and women, anyone can wander around and pick whatever locker they wish to use because the lockers are not located in the private single sex cubicle nor in a mixed sex open communal changing rooms .

The space an unoccupied private single sex cubicle is also cleaned by male and female cleaners.

They have put separate single sex shower spaces though because you would not be willing to shower naked in a mixed sex shower area .

There have never been any issues reported in the local media, such as ,

www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/crime/paedophile-who-attempted-to-film-girls-in-changing-rooms-is-3245168

www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime/alleged-sexual-assault-at-swiss-cottage-leisure-centre-8489586

metro.co.uk/2022/06/04/pcso-who-filmed-children-in-swimming-pool-changing-room-jailed-16769712/amp/

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/19513931.man-sexually-assaulted-woman-learning-difficulties-pool/

news.sky.com/story/metropolitan-police-officer-swaleh-chaudhry-charged-with-voyeurism-and-making-an-indecent-image-of-child-12579331

bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49836843.amp

I have no idea why you think that someone who just wants to enjoy a swim would primarily be there to assault women just because she happens to be trans. To me that is absolutely shocking.

Really, a male entering into a women's communal changing room is normal ?

examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/disgraced-former-pricewaterhouse-coopers-accountant-19989644.amp

So this ⬆️ bloke only wanted to arrive at his train stop and when he was out and about previous the 1500+ women involved in his non contact sex offending all consented to his abuse?

Frankly I am sick and tired of all these thread where women are suggesting that other women just by existing should ignore her needs and wants and agree to prioritise random males.

It really saddens me and makes me ashamed of that brand of MRA being described as feminism.

Ok. But what about a male?

You do realise that even if you are fine with males sharing communal changing rooms with females, you actually don’t get to consent for people who have very valid reasons for not consenting.

And if you are not happy to share with a male, why does it change if they have declared they are a women? What makes them different in your view?

Why would their safety be under threat? Who from?

Yeah. No erections are ‘innocent’. Whoever said that needs to get a fucking grip.

If your saddened and ashamed, perhaps you can help me out here, in order that I can get where you're coming from.

This is the third time I've asked this question, I'm hoping I might get an answer from someone.

What is the benefit to the OPs mum and friends of having a male use the changing room where they are getting dressed and undressed?

*you're

Why would their safety be under threat? Who from?

The eternally never answered question.

I think that when posters try to answer it, they realise just how crap that logic is and how hypocritical the statement is. Maybe, just maybe they might think that they have been sold in the mantra of ‘most vulnerable and marginalised’ and have outsourced their critical thinking skills to self declared social media influencers.

Well. You could hope they realise that.

The pool really needs to provide a solution so that the transwoman and your mum feel safe.

They have. Read the OP's posts. The male chose to ignore it.

I think they might be saddened and ashamed realising that some women have higher and stronger boundaries around their need for safety and privacy than they do, and that those women are perfectly reasonable to have those boundaries.

I think it's quite interesting that none of the people criticising the op is even attempting to answer my question.

I go to a class which is mostly women. In the communal changing rooms we have a laugh and chat. I don't want to use a cubicle. I want to chat in a male-free space for 10 minutes. A male should not be there and is not welcome there. Why is that so hard to understand? I also think it is very beneficial for women to see female bodies of all ages. We are bombarded with images of perfect bodies when the reality is very different.

The person in question has a male body.

Women who are uncomfortable changing around male bodied people can now not attend the class.

Muslim women who are not allowed to change around male bodied people can now not attend the class.

Why is their discomfort and potential of them stopping a class they enjoy less important than the wishes of a male bodied person?

Why does the trans woman in question do something that makes the elderly women in question uncomfortable despite being offered their own women only changing room?

As for the fact they are unlikely to be a predator - so are most men, but none of them are allowed in female only single sex spaces because of both the safety and dignity of the women who wish to use those single sex spaces.

So again I ask, why is the safety and dignity and comfort of a group of natal women using a shared changing room less important than the wishes of an individual trans woman who has access to their own private changing room?

The argument is often used that a trans woman aka a man would be unsafe in the men's. Why are we not discussing how a trans presenting male could be made more safe in the men's? The answer is not to make women feel unsafe. I find it fascinating that the issue of trans men in the men's never comes up. Is it because trans men aka women simply don't go in the men's, but continue to use the women's because they feel safer amongst their own sex? It often feels that trans men don't seem to need the same level of validation that trans women do, nor is the equivalent of autogynophilia present in trans men to the same extent.

@Jewel1968

I think it would be problematic for a transwoman to use male changing room as their safety would be under threat.

And why would it be a threat? Because of the actions of male bodied people.

Yet you're asking women to welcome a male bodied person into their space.

Can you not see how nonsensical that is?

The pool really needs to provide a solution so that the transwoman and your mum feel safe.

They have. The trans woman hasn't adhered to the pool's perfectly reasonable solution which validates their self identity as a woman but also protects the safety, dignity and comfort of natal women using the pool.

They provide a shared single sex women only space for her mum and the other women using the pool.

And they have asked the trans woman to use a private single sex women only space.

That trans woman has instead insisted on using the shared single sex women only space.

Why is it only people without penises who have to compromise or prioritise other people's feelings?

Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans

For a guess it would be all the usual reasons women can spot a man however they are dressed.
Includes but not limited to
Size of body, hands, feet, head
Breadth of chest
Adam's apple
Gait
Hair
Smell
Muscle mass

And on and on.
Unless you think we shouldnt notice? But thousands of years of evolution cant be disregarded just like that.

this in addition the children would not be in the changing rooms at the same time as an adult session was booked at the school.

This transphobia has got to stop. How on earth does your mum know it was a trans person?

The person is a man which is why she feels uncomfortable. There, fixed that for you.

A transwomen is at a higher risk of being sexually assaulted ovc.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh226/files/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html

Do you think she should be in the men's?

Or do you think we should go back to segregation days? No Irish , no blacks etc.

How on earth does your mum know it was a trans person?

It's generally quite obvious what sex someone is, especially in a swimming costume.

And we're back to women are not human shields again.