Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

[Justme56]

Sorry I can't share the article, but liked this:

What is the funniest thing that has happened in your job?

As a result of my work in this area, apparently becoming an object of admiration on Mumsnet [the Internet parents' forum] - improbable in many ways.

😁

"freedom from discrimination" - so true, trans people should not be discriminated against.

Ah but here comes the rub

Transwomen should not face discrimination does not mean that they - unless evidenced as fair and necessary - deserve access to the elements of society used to protect women

It is not In my opinion discrimination to acknowledge that they are male bodied people and where male and female distinctions are needed they should be considered male

To reframe that as discrimination is showing great male privilege

Again, you are being deliberately obtuse. And you are not addressing the issue. These are connected issues.

we know that trans people change their sex marker. We know this. It is absolutely connected to them also changing all sex markers on their official ID.

Your continued twisting and avoiding the point is very clear.

The issue is - how do trans people best get the healthcare that suits their unique needs?

So I support trans women being called checked for breast cancer bc of their elevated risk and I don't think trans men without wombs should be called for smear tests.

Their medical records should reflect their individual circumstances.

Nope.

Feminism centres the needs for females due to their opression by males.

You can try to force team feminism and trans rights but you have shown yourself to be absolutely unable to centre females whilst posting on a feminism board. So, I am very confident that you don’t actually have a depth of understanding about feminism, and the lived reality of females.

So I can pretty safely say that the only similarity between feminism and trans rights is that they are ‘movements’ involving people.

Because, for reader’s benefit as you have had this explained many times now, the current attempt for extreme trans activists to prioritise males in the rights and protections set up for females to counter the negative discrimination experienced by them due to their sexed body is harmful to females.

YOU can tell the world you think there is a lot in common, but ‘freedom’ of trans people seems to mean harm to females and ‘bodily autonomy’ being activated for by extreme trans rights includes the medicalisation of children under affirming only treatment. And bodily autonomy for females also means the right to have single sex spaces and not have their bodies utilised for someone else’s ideological needs.

Is this a rinse and repeat?

You either did not even read the original post or you cannot answer.

Conversely, there is no point trans men who have had hysterectomy being invited for smear tests. That's a waste of the NHS's time.

As you seem to be so confused about female anatomy that you think having one's uterus removed means one doesn't need cervical smears, this is maybe not the board for you to be opining on. It's a dangerous oversimplication.

We can still develop cervical cancer after hysterectomy.

Firstly, because there are different types of hysterectomy, and what is known as a partial hysterectomy does not remove the cervix.

Secondly, female people who have had a total hysterectomy, which does remove the cervix, because of cervical cancer are explicitly advised to continue having smears for the next two decades to monitor for the presence of cancerous cells.

Yes purgatory and imagine, just imagine if Stonewall campaigned for the ability for the NHS to keep the original sex marker and add a gender marker along with adding the new name!

Wow! Wouldn’t that be fucking brilliant!

A complete history of the health care and needs of that patient! And yet….

Trans people's medical records should accurately record their medical needs.

Everyone's medical records should accurately reflect their needs.
So sure, a trans person's should include their sex plus relevant info on medical and surgical modifications.

There is a reasonable chance that countries with a something like a public health lung cancer screening/case finding programme may find themselves considering different intervals to recognise the differences between the sexes and most common types of lung cancer.

Caroline Criado Perez's work is highlighting relevant sex differences in health care and we're starting to see those turn up more in evidence based diagnostics and treatment now that sex differences are recognised for their critical importance.

Healthcare records need to record sex. Gender identity where necessary but sex is essential.

Healthcare records need to record sex. Gender identity where necessary but sex is essential.

Yes. And 'preferred name' - this isn't just an issue for trans people. MIL was always known by her middle name - until in the final stages of her life the NHS seemed incapable of retaining this information. Really not helpful when treating someone suffering from confusion.

Yes Errol. That too is an excellent point about dementia care.

The NHS under guidance from lobby groups have created a very unsafe environment by making those changes demanded.

It is more likely to severely impact on females who already suffer from negative sexist discrimination as Embarassing’s post points to.

Gleefully celebrating changes that have wider ramifications that negatively impact females in this way, on a feminist board, is either a sign of ignorance of the wider issues facing females, or it is misogyny.

I would suggest posters actually start to understand more about female’s lives before continuing to post celebrating making female’s live worse because lobby groups are so focused on one narrow aspect they miss the wider reach of their actions and they don’t make useful suggestions on how to counter the wider conflicts.

Plus ca change .

Males will continue to celebrate actions that they only have superficial understanding of, and will shame women who point out the negative impacts.

just imagine if Stonewall campaigned for the ability for the NHS to keep the original sex marker and add a gender marker along with adding the new name!
Wow! Wouldn’t that be fucking brilliant!

The fact that they don't makes so glaringly obvious that there is another agenda. Otherwise why, why, why would anyone not want the full picture in healthcare of all places?
Ultimately the agenda is validation at any cost and shucks to anyone who is collateral damage.

And include there the restrictions on the language medical staff can use too.

Fuck it is a nightmare. And Stonewall are right there in the thick of it.

Read the whole thread.

Interesting to see how posters keep trying to insist that Stonewall in some way won, but here are my few thoughts :

There are no fees for taking an employer to tribunal for either the employee, or for the employer to defend themselves. The extra costs (apart from the time involved) only come when either side pay for legal advice and representation.

The legal arguments to set GC rights in law required a lot of preparation and excellent litigation. But that has now been done. To do so between Maya and Allison cost more than a million quid, but this is what it now means for people like me :

Should I suffer any type of detriment from my employer for my beliefs, my protections have been set in law so I don't have to argue for them first. My employer cannot claim that they were just following advice from Stonewall (or any other agency), they have to take full responsibility themselves for their actions, so I won't have to take Stonewall on too as Allison did.

My case would be much more straightforward and frankly, I could do it myself without needing to pay a solicitor to represent me, so to take my employer to tribunal would now cost me nothing at all.

Alternatively, a lot of home insurance carries legal protection for employment cases, and now that these protections are law, these cases will be a lot more straightforward and likely to meet the threshold needed to be covered by insurance.

It cost a million quid to safeguard our employment rights, allow us confidence to bring up safeguarding issues at work, allow us security to assert our rights, allow us to campaign for issues important to us on social media outside of work - worth every penny.

This debate is really going to open up now and finally a solution is in sight.

"Trans men who have had a total hysterectomy to remove their cervix do not need cervical screening."

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/sexual-health/should-trans-men-have-cervical-screening-tests/

I will take the advice of the NHS over someone on the internet, sorry.

I will take the advice of the NHS over someone on the internet, sorry.

The NHS don't even know what a woman is so good luck with that.

And yet...
www.cancer.org.au/cervicalscreening/i-am-over-25/do-i-need-the-test/what-if-i-have-had-a-hysterectomy

Oh dear hearache. Don’t you ever learn? How fucking misogynistic do you have to be to tell a group of females that they don’t know about female health. And how fucking imperative it is to communicate clearly about female health ensuring the very lowest level of communication needed to get messages across is used.

Is it finally sinking in how you keep celebrating when females are being harmed? Will you start to actually engage and maybe even learn something or are you going to continue with you misogynistic posting pattern?

The Australian advice is spot on for the nuance that they give around this issue: it's regrettable that the NHS does not cover this nuance and it's something that is worth reporting so that they re-write and update their guidance accordingly.

The topic in question is healthcare for men who are transgender and I am getting my information from the National Health Service.

The topic in question is healthcare for men who are transgender and I am getting my information from the National Health Service.

Please stop twisting this! You are now spreading harmful misinformation.

This is why SEX matters, and you are dangerous.

I'm quoting the NHS's website. If you think that is misinformation perhaps you should email your MP.

I thought the topic (as in, what this thread is currently discussing) is accurate healthcare information for females in general, including transmen.
Not understanding why anyone would be complacent about that NHS section which is giving transmen only partial information.

Yes totally agree, it must record sex, GI where necessary and relevant (i.e. with details of surgical / hormonal treatments the hc professional can drill into if they need to ) And a preferred name / term of address for everyone.