Tavistock clinic to close as not safe for children

[GettingMarriedAgain]

Breaking news in the Times and Telegraph:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e1ed2bea-0e63-11ed-93cf-b011fa7fe86b?shareToken=4fa557c3083dee141defde72e0e53d54

Hadley Freeman:

twitter.com/HadleyFreeman/status/1556897582630244352?t=dhrxbuqsErp0t6aJzAIS1Q&s=19

"How much did the Tavistock & Portman Trust spend on watching what people said about it on Twitter? Me for Unherd "

t.co/NqdfkqY6nw

I don't find it at all problematic from a feminist point of view, therefore, to posit that female humans might be more biologically predisposed to some traits and behaviours than male humans, and male humans might be more biologically predisposed to some traits and behaviours than female humans.

Neither do I. Those behaviours are secondary to your sex, not the other way round.

That video is really creepy. That it is from an organisation in the UK is concerning.

I’m really concerned at the link with vulnerable kids and the Tavistock. In the autism community, I see it not being questioned at all that there is a ‘link’ between trans gender and autism. It’s just seen through a pro trans lens.

I am hoping that the report into Tavistock will lead to more investigations in this area.

Its really easy to advance search tweets - takes two seconds to do it on one profile to be fair.

Can we please stop pretending that the Travisstock gender clinic closing is a victory.
England is now going to produce more gender clinics for kids with shorter waitlisted which means a increased capacity, 80 Percent of kids that have gender dysphoria grow out of it by the time they reach adolescence the longer the waitlist the better until we can get this ideology out of our country

Shorter wait lists are fine, in fact they're better. What we don't want is a path of immediate affirmation and blockers. The sooner these vulnerable, confused, often mentally unwell kids can see a professional who can give them time and expert support rather than immediately messing with their fertility, health and decision making capacity, the better. Once they feel validated and heard, we may well find that the 75% or so who do come to realise they're actually gay make that realisation sooner.

If they are on the CAMHS waiting list same as most other non-emergencies, why do you think the wait would be shorter? Why should it be? What would be the basis for prioritising them?

Nobody is pretending anything. More clinics with a more holistic approach that explores mental health issues and doesn't just affirm is a win for us and for young people.

I don't know that they'd be shorter. I just know that it isn't a bad thing if they are. The bad thing is instant, unwavering affirmation and immediately going on blockers that can ruin fertility, health and cognitive development.

What we really need to stop is the increasing supply of children identifying as trans being referred in the first place.

We need the adults: parents, schools and media, to give a consistent message: you can't change sex, you are a boy or a girl based on your biology, this is the clear language we use.

You can explore your fashion choices and hair as much as you like (what else is there once you take away the compelled language and medication?)

This would prevent all the confusion and reduce the numbers of young people needing mental health support for gender identity issues. Leaving more capacity for those few with deep persistent dysphoria.

Also, if they know they're not going to get medication at these clinics surely the demand for referrals will go down anyway?
It's not mental health support most are wanting.

The ones with co-morbid mental health conditions would get referred for those.

Can we please stop pretending that the Travisstock gender clinic closing is a victory.

👀 😄 I’m reminded of the people who showed up here trying to persuade us that we should be upset about the Alison Bailey results.

I do think Cass has done an amazingly skilful thing in how she wrote her report. It was brilliantly bland and bureaucratic and we all know TRAs aren’t very good at knowing what words mean.

Given our experience of CAMHS, I do worry about how hollistic the care at new centres will be. If they suspect autism then a referral may be made to the autism team who may or may not diagnose autism. At the end of which you may think 'what about ADHD?' but have to go back to the GP to get rereffered and a year or two waiting later you are seen by the ADHD team who say 'yes he has that too'. They then develop chronic anxiety so another GP referral and wait to be told 'anxiety due to autism' and discharged. All currently done by zoom. And if you need medication for ADHD and anxiety they would each be prescribed by different teams who don't talk to each other.

The problem about putting this on local CAMHS teams is CAMHS teams are already failing.

Yes, stealth trolling seems to be the new thing. Usually starting with "I'm as GC as they come, but..." or just using "We" when they've never posted on this board before. 🙄

I think some people have misinterpreted radfem’s post. My concerns echo hers.

The TRAs really have no idea who and what they are fighting.

Never seen them before on this board and the "Can we stop pretending" is a weird turn of phrase.

Offhand, I don't know radfem's perspective but I have posted (yet can't find–thank you broken advanced search) my apprehensions about the regional hubs.

I would echo the concerns that posters have expressed about the substantial regional differences in timely access to CAHMS.

GIDS staff will have some oversight of these hubs, based on their experience, and I have concerns about some GIDS staff.

As yet, we know nothing about the stakeholders and patient/parent/carer representatives who are already in place in many of these regions. They may well all have clinicians and patient and public voice representatives in place who are influenced by Stonewall and Mermaids. E.g., Adrian Harrop is a clinician with cMAGIC, iirc. NB: I don't expect Harrop to be working with children but with 18+, if I understand the arrangements correctly.

www.mpts-uk.org/-/media/mpts-rod-files/dr-adrian-harrop-30-nov-21.pdf

I don't know how much influence Dr Cass can have on the regional hubs. A lot will depend on Cass' final report which is due in 2023. In the interim, I would be surprised if anyone pursued PBs or cross-sex hormones for the under-18s, particularly outside of Scotland. However, we have seen that a number of detransitioners were in their 20s when they were treated and there may still be issues in play there.

Yes but this is a case of different opinions, not 'pretending', which is something TRAs would, and have said.

With regard to CAHMS: if it's now 75% girls presenting at the Tavistock, then CAHMS, generally, across the UK, need to be up to speed with specific diagnostics and treatment for girls, rather than the "take the male as a default and use that as a proxy for females", that has blighted the existence of women and girls in so many different areas of life. See 'Invisible Women' by Caroline Criado Perez for chapter and verse.

I know, I'm asking for the moon on a stick, asking for mental health and counselling services tailored specifically to deal compassionately with the distress felt by girls and women, in a way that relates directly to girls and women and our common experiences; rather than try to adapt or force service clients who are girls and women to accept and fall in line with services that were always designed primarily for men and boys.

The whole system is in a bit of a mess for holistic care of any teenager. And throw onto that, all the social contagion effects, which are huge at the moment, and which include transgender, autism, Tourette’s, eating disorders and such which increased with social media use during the lockdowns. These particularly seem to be in girls as they start to use social media and exacerbated through pushy agendas in these digital forums.

Services don’t seem to know how to handle this, and now seem to be following the kids and push from lobbying groups around them, rather than having strong, solid criteria and assessments, good robust holistic care which looks for underlying issues, or even in some cases, turning away and saying you don’t need this service to diagnose you and transgender isn’t a diagnosis, it’s an idea.

I was hoping that the Tavistock closing might lead to public wake up call that something just isn’t right. It should be the canary warning system. It reveals how rabbit holes of ideology are being medicalised. How teenagers are rushing for a diagnosis. Why do so many teenage girls for example, seem to really need an identity that is ratified by medical services? Or validation from others? Or to desperately want to be part of a tribe?

Autism and Tourette's aren't subject to social contagion, though tics can be, as can thinking you have autism/Tourette's or identifying as such. Increased awareness can lead to more cases being identified, and changes in criteria can lead to people being diagnosed who previously wouldn't have been. But unlike some cases of disordered eating, self-harm and cross-gender identification, social factors aren't really part of developing Tourette's or autism.

Lawsuits underway

Tavistock gender clinic ‘to be sued by 1,000 families’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4e7fc538-18dc-11ed-b1f4-627a202c7457?shareToken=191b1e44947ec941dc6ea6462bd9502f

Mindblowing.

Hopefully we will see movement on the education dept guidelines.

Just saw this in The Times. Tavistock to be sued by 1000 families.

archive.ph/2022.08.10-233104/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4e7fc538-18dc-11ed-b1f4-627a202c7457?shareToken=485af9527de58533cf4579b7d4c53d7b