Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tavistock clinic to close as not safe for children

698 replies

GettingMarriedAgain · 28/07/2022 12:27

Breaking news in the Times and Telegraph:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e1ed2bea-0e63-11ed-93cf-b011fa7fe86b?shareToken=4fa557c3083dee141defde72e0e53d54

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Signalbox · 28/07/2022 15:22

I’ve seen a few trans activists call it “conversation therapy by the back door”, or variations of that sentiment, due to the new services having “strong links” to mental health services. They really don’t want youths with gender dysphoria to get any MH support do they?

Lurkerlot · 28/07/2022 15:24

on LBC now - worth a listen

MalagaNights · 28/07/2022 15:25

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 28/07/2022 15:18

There's not been any meaningful revelations about antidepressants that should be having any influence on whether they're prescribed. It's an academic discussion about mechanism of action. Questions of efficacy are separate. Personally I don't think SSRIs are particularly effective, and they're prescribed mainly because they're pretty safe, the placebo effect is real and important, and you never know, they might help a bit on top of that. But that's nothing to do with the research into MOA.

Aspects of your argument help the people who want to cut, cut and cut mental health services for children, young people and adults. There will always be some people who need specialist mental health care no matter how much we improve society because mental illness exists, is real, and can't always be avoided. We need to tackle poverty, abuse, racism, unhelpful societal trends, and other things that can trigger or exacerbate mental health problems and mental illness, but we also need well-funded mental health services for those who are mentally ill.

If these new regional hubs will help young people questioning their gender by tackling issues around ASD, child abuse, OCD, and so on as well as their gender issues, that's great, but what about those children who have all the same issues but haven't said the magic g-word — are they going to be left to struggle along while the special ones get swept off to a luxury holistic service?

I'm going to avoid getting sidelined into a discussion on SSRIs.

I agree with your points about needing to look more widely at the causes of the stratospheric rise in mental health difficulties. That is the point I was making.

If anyone thinks young people with mental health needs associated with ASD or trauma are having these adequately addressed by camhs then I can only say you don't have experience of the ongoing difficulties.
And it's not just an issue of resources it's also ineffective support provided.

BootsAndRoots · 28/07/2022 15:25

I would've thought this would've been bad news for Stonewall, Pink News et al. But the fact that they are putting a positive spin on this shows that it is more idealogical than medical for them.

Muminabun · 28/07/2022 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WarriorN · 28/07/2022 15:25

spongedog · 28/07/2022 15:19

Excellent news but I am concerned about CAMHS. Already unfit for purpose and their only objective at the moment is to get children off their books as quickly as possible (before either seeing or treating them).

Yes - also many areas are v captured

WarriorN · 28/07/2022 15:25

I'm delighted this has happened. But the next steps are crucial.

MsFogi · 28/07/2022 15:26

Wow - second day of the week I have a brilliant excuse for a JKR Cocktail!!

xalo · 28/07/2022 15:26

Sky News must think we are stupid!
No mention of failure at all just a focus on numbers.Confused

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/07/2022 15:27

I don't imagine Mermaids and their fellow travellers will be pleased about this, so wonder how long it'll be before the demonising of Dr Cass starts

medianewbie · 28/07/2022 15:27

Thank God !
Now, please let common sense prevail in Scotland, to offer children like my 14 y/o Dd with Autism proper support.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 28/07/2022 15:29

MalagaNights · 28/07/2022 15:25

I'm going to avoid getting sidelined into a discussion on SSRIs.

I agree with your points about needing to look more widely at the causes of the stratospheric rise in mental health difficulties. That is the point I was making.

If anyone thinks young people with mental health needs associated with ASD or trauma are having these adequately addressed by camhs then I can only say you don't have experience of the ongoing difficulties.
And it's not just an issue of resources it's also ineffective support provided.

I think it's fairly obvious that I'm aware that children with these issues are currently left to struggle. I think it would be an iniquity to provide services to tackle these problems only to children who have also threatened to transition.

You appear to think that because current services are both inadequate and shit (which they are), specialist mental healthcare can't help children with mental health problems. I disagree.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/07/2022 15:29

Who's to say this won't simply turn into an opportunity for more clinics to become a home for gender extremists to push their ideology across the country?

Well, there's the Cass review. Even the interim report is pretty solid. And there's the evidence about longer term outcomes too, which is (at last) being gathered . It will be harder to justify ideology if the evidence flat out contradicts it.

SidewaysOtter · 28/07/2022 15:30

Charlie Bentley-Astor has tweeted that they have a "bombshell" piece coming out in the Telegraph this evening to do with the Tavistock clinic. Might be an interesting read...

KohlaParasaurus · 28/07/2022 15:31

A big step in the right direction, but the underfunding and understaffing of CAMHS services needs to be addressed urgently.

VestofAbsurdity · 28/07/2022 15:31

Yes - also many areas are v captured

Which is why this ideology needs to the rooted out of the entirety of the health service.

Make those individuals who are captured and pushing it on patients and clinicians personally liable for any damage caused by their actions and see then just how quick they hit reverse gear.

OMG12 · 28/07/2022 15:33

MalagaNights · 28/07/2022 15:03

Camhs is underfunded and has very poor outcomes for those who do meet the thresholds.

We're deluded in thinking that we have effective mental health services for the mental health crisis we're seeing in young people and that the issue is just quantity not effectiveness.

The recent anti depression revelations should be a wake up call on this idea that mental health services are the answer to the mental health crisis.

Something is going very wrong in the experiences of young people leading to this mental health crisis and we should be addressing that instead of pretending we have professionals with the answers and all we need is loads more of them.

I

This, we need to work out what is going on in society that is screwing up so many peoples mental health, it’s not just the transgender issue it also underlies the obesity crisis, crime…,,etc,

All we keep doing is putting sticking plasters on. What are we allowing to happen to people?

LizzieSiddal · 28/07/2022 15:36

My immediate gut reaction was "oh no, now there will be ten times more gender identity services to be captured by extremists like Adrian Harrop et al"

Me too.

RandomlyThrownTogether · 28/07/2022 15:36

drwitch · 28/07/2022 15:05

Spin from trans actual

twitter linlk

They may as well have literally typed 'nothing to see here'

'We’ve seen some misleading headlines, so just to clarify something:

A report has come out saying that GIDS should be delivered regionally rather than from one clinic in London.

No need to be concerned.'

FacebookPhotos · 28/07/2022 15:39

Seems that even the Equalities Minister was cowed and unable to express her real opinion!

I don’t think she was cowed, so much as respecting the principle of collective responsibility of government. It is likely (imo) that she has been scathing of gender ideology and has been a significant influence on the roll back from within government. Now she’s a back bencher she’s much more free to criticise publicly, though not necessarily as able effect change. I honestly don’t think we’d have come this far if we had a True Believer as Equalities Minister.

As for whether the new services become captured too - that is something we will need to keep an eye on. A likely tranche of legal cases from poorly treated children will hopefully help focus NHS minds regarding giving out experimental drugs to kids with MH problems.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/07/2022 15:44

@medianewbie I really hope your DD will get the support she needs. Flowers

I was fascinated by the snippets about the NHS that I picked up from watching the committee meetings considering the Scottish GRA reforms. The NHS representatives seemed to lack a certain amount of clue.

And by detransitioner Sinead Watson's account of her experience of the Sandyford in Glasgow. It's not a very happy story though.

RandomlyThrownTogether · 28/07/2022 15:45

OMG12 · 28/07/2022 15:33

This, we need to work out what is going on in society that is screwing up so many peoples mental health, it’s not just the transgender issue it also underlies the obesity crisis, crime…,,etc,

All we keep doing is putting sticking plasters on. What are we allowing to happen to people?

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/may/07/anxiety-isnt-fun-but-can-be-healthy-facing-up-to-it-is-always-better-than-hiding

'Today, anxiety disorders are the most common mental health issues in the US, affecting 30% of adults. In the UK, prescriptions for anti-anxiety medications have almost doubled over the past 15 years, with a sharp rise among the under-25s (in the US, says Dennis-Tiwary, prescriptions have quadrupled)'

I read Dennis-Tiwary's book recently. While I found parts of it facile, this point, about the amount of medication being prescribed, was probably the most useful and interesting piece of information.

BobDear · 28/07/2022 15:45

BootsAndRoots · 28/07/2022 15:25

I would've thought this would've been bad news for Stonewall, Pink News et al. But the fact that they are putting a positive spin on this shows that it is more idealogical than medical for them.

Came to say exactly the same thing @BootsAndRoots I am delighted that the Tavistock is finally being seen for what it is, but actually even more repulsed by Stonewall than I was before seeing them try to spin this as a 'This is great - we are getting more clinics to deal with the abundance of children who need to transition'.

It is completely about ideology for them. The more people who choose to transition, the more 'right' they were all along....

Artichokeleaves · 28/07/2022 15:45

medianewbie · 28/07/2022 15:27

Thank God !
Now, please let common sense prevail in Scotland, to offer children like my 14 y/o Dd with Autism proper support.

First response of several in my family too.

Great news about multi agency regional hubs with MH focus..... now can we have them for children with Autism too please?

Blossomtoes · 28/07/2022 15:53

Great news about multi agency regional hubs with MH focus..... now can we have them for children with Autism too please?

And eating disorders. Five young women have died here in the last year in the care of CAMHS.

Swipe left for the next trending thread