Judith Butler in The New Statesman

[ScreamingMeMe]

twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1550765835144364040?t=q1JBabwoM_zR2lp91Fml0A&s=19

What does the overturning of Roe vs Wade mean for progress? And where does feminism go next?

@paperdispatch spoke with the philosopher and gender theorist, Judith Butler, about Roe vs Wade, trans rights, and the war on education.

t.co/sQXh7virgB

🔴On the reaction to Roe vs Wade: "I don’t agree with analysts who lay the blame for the repeal on feminists or trans people or the deceased Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg."

"That way of turning against ourselves is too easy and wrong-headed and it keeps us from doing what is most necessary – analysing and defeating the hard right."

"When some feminists now make claims like, “the patriarchal oppression of women is heavily rooted in our reproductive systems”, it can sound like those reproductive systems are the cause of the oppression. That is muddled thinking, wrong, and does not advance feminist aims."

🔴Is the ruling a backlash to progress?

"I think we are witnessing something more serious and dangerous than a backlash. This is a “restoration project” that has as its final aim the reconstruction of an order that some feel has been dismantled by progressive legislation." t.co/j9Pv5lTsqj

"Under this “restoration project”, not only is patriarchy to be restored, protected against its dismantling, but white supremacy, and exclusively heterosexual marriage."

"White supremacists and Maga Republicans are also waging a war against educational institutions from K-12 [primary and secondary school] through higher education, accusing leftists of inculcating ideology."

"We have to understand the attack on movements for racial justice, abortion rights, healthcare justice and legal protections for migrants, support for the gun lobby and the arms industry, as linked with the repeal of Roe." t.co/e9h2uc1qg7

🔴Where do you see hope when you think about what’s next?

"We have to fight for abortion rights, but it is one of many rights that belong to reproductive justice, and that reproductive justice is part of the complex and dynamic struggle for justice."

"Once we realise that, then we are on our way toward imagining a transformative force that would equal and overcome those who promote hatred and inequality."

"We are gathered as targets by a well-coordinated Right, so perhaps we should decide how we want to gather, and for what aim."

Read the full interview here:

t.co/sQXh7virgB

I had heard that the woman sympathised with the BLM protest, it was the compelled nature of it she objected to on principle. It's not winning hearts and minds, but I expect many people along for a protest don't actually care about that.

😁😁😁

Queer theory (and the other critical theories) don't claim changing language makes oppressed groups harder to target, they claim language shapes reality itself. That's what all the 2+2 = 5 stuff was about. Language unanchored from reality, being used as a tool to shape society. Everything is abstract and as a result of power structures

Mate, no. That's unacceptable. Attacking 'antifa' is not 'racism' and it's ludicrous and offensive to say so. You can't just point at any random sliced pineapple and claim its racist because you've decided it is. What is this, Happy Hour on Non-Sequitur Sunday?

Oh, I see. It's just pointless time-wasting, then. Pffft.

Yes, the captions say,

'The woman in pink, who says her name is Lauren B Victor, told Washington Post journalist Fredrick Kunkle she did not like being coerced into showing support for the BLM movement. Ms Victor said she was not frightened and supported the movement even if she did not like the tactics of these supporters.'

So is the idea that once we include men in the group 'women' and some female people remove themselves from that group 'women', it's now supposed to be the case that misogyny and sexism can no longer find their targets? That picking 'they/them' will stop a female person from facing discrimination on the basis of sex and somehow protect that 'them' from being sexually assaulted?

It's confusing to me. If everyone here who is not already transitioned would decide to become nonbinary, none of us would ever face sex-based mistreatments?

Hm. It's the closest I've seen to a rationale for how 'queering' society might counter misogyny. It might work for short periods of time in the context of online interactions in some small bubbles, I suppose, if the discourse is tightly controlled and policed. Or in highly regulated and controlled environments where everyone shares the same socio-political ideals.

Out in the average street, however, it's going to come up hard against reality and nobody's non-binary identity is going to be much of a protection against rape, dv, or sexist abuse.

It’s also notable that antifascist is totally fine with ageism, having used “old” as an insult towards us on MN.

So, @antifascist — please inform us: how do you personally differ from any average common-or-garden misogynist who tells women what they should think?

There are several members of this board who are really nasty pieces of work.

Lijke fascists.
Like Jordan Peterson

repeatedly post link to far rioght websites, far right influencers, and far right talking points.

like right wing members of the Conservative Party.

Dislike references to the Conservatives deporting black people.

Make abusive remarks to the age, looks intelligence of opponents

You made the mistake of asking very reasonable questions that Boxowine had no answer to, hence that rather desperate flaying of an entire army of strawmen. Boxowine needs better deflection technique.

I don’t think you’ve answered my question, @antifascist. What differentiates you from any misogynist?

Out in the average street, however, it's going to come up hard against reality and nobody's non-binary identity is going to be much of a protection against rape, dv, or sexist abuse.

Aye.

i see the typing speeds up in direct proportion to the fury

and likewise the spelling deteriorates

Relentless ad hominem. You are the MN incarnation of those antifa blokes in balaclavas who think it edgy to shout over women.

Now @antifascist , your posts are normally just amusing, but claiming racism on this thread is too far.

You are not doing your cause any good when everyone can see you're lying.

@Boxowine I'm sorry for what is happening to women needing abortion in US, and I wish you luck with getting abortion rights encoded in law, as they should be.

I do worry that the tactics and ideologies used by the left, in US, and clearly supported by you, will not achieve it. You cannot win hearts and minds by smearing your opponents as fascists with no proof, it just doesn't work, and that concerns me.

Why was RvW always so controversial? What do you think makes US so unique amongst first world countries that it now lacks universal abortion provision? And what are the 'progressives' doing about it, except for calling everyone who disagrees a fascist, like JB?

KJK just had the police round. Accused of a hate crime for 'being untoward about paedophiles'.

the idea that you can use words to create your reality seems to me to be the worst kind of victim blaming

are people in terrible situations, those living in the Calais Jungle for example, or victims of trafficking, simply displaying insufficient gumption and not defining their reality correctly?

<polishes 'nasty piece of work' badge>

it's made from real anthrax

'Being untoward about paedophiles' .....?

And this is a bad thing because.......?

wtf?

Who are you calling a 'fascist'?

You are saying women should not discuss Jordan Peterson? Do you have a list of approved topics for women to talk about?

As for abusive - you think it's totally fine to call women on here 'fascists'? To sneer at our age? To call us racist? How bloody dare you.

seriously @PearlClutch , in the words of Peggy Mitchell, 'he's not worth it'

most of his posts are simply stuff he wishes were true. he's just here to piss you off.

Why was RvW always so controversial? What do you think makes US so unique amongst first world countries that it now lacks universal abortion provision? And what are the 'progressives' doing about it, except for calling everyone who disagrees a fascist, like JB?

I know this is not for me or for the purpose of being answered, but I have though about this a lot, and it certainly is linked to another aspect in which the US is rather unique among first world countries:

Its religiousity, and especially the very large number of quite fundamentalist Christians within both the evangelical and the Catholic churches.

That religiousity differs by state and in lots of ways the US is a melange of quite different 'countries' with different demographics, belief systems and levels of economic development. More like Europe as a continent than like any European country.

@antifascist I think your time might be better spent installing internet restrictions on your mum's laptop, in case she stumbles upon those horrific far-right websites you're so concerned about.

You just never know, as a woman her mind is weak and easily swayed, what if she watches Jordan Peterson and doesn't think he's a fascist, how will you cope?

As to this board, you're too late, it's practically 8chan in here, too far gone I'm afraid