Judith Butler in The New Statesman

[ScreamingMeMe]

twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1550765835144364040?t=q1JBabwoM_zR2lp91Fml0A&s=19

What does the overturning of Roe vs Wade mean for progress? And where does feminism go next?

@paperdispatch spoke with the philosopher and gender theorist, Judith Butler, about Roe vs Wade, trans rights, and the war on education.

t.co/sQXh7virgB

🔴On the reaction to Roe vs Wade: "I don’t agree with analysts who lay the blame for the repeal on feminists or trans people or the deceased Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg."

"That way of turning against ourselves is too easy and wrong-headed and it keeps us from doing what is most necessary – analysing and defeating the hard right."

"When some feminists now make claims like, “the patriarchal oppression of women is heavily rooted in our reproductive systems”, it can sound like those reproductive systems are the cause of the oppression. That is muddled thinking, wrong, and does not advance feminist aims."

🔴Is the ruling a backlash to progress?

"I think we are witnessing something more serious and dangerous than a backlash. This is a “restoration project” that has as its final aim the reconstruction of an order that some feel has been dismantled by progressive legislation." t.co/j9Pv5lTsqj

"Under this “restoration project”, not only is patriarchy to be restored, protected against its dismantling, but white supremacy, and exclusively heterosexual marriage."

"White supremacists and Maga Republicans are also waging a war against educational institutions from K-12 [primary and secondary school] through higher education, accusing leftists of inculcating ideology."

"We have to understand the attack on movements for racial justice, abortion rights, healthcare justice and legal protections for migrants, support for the gun lobby and the arms industry, as linked with the repeal of Roe." t.co/e9h2uc1qg7

🔴Where do you see hope when you think about what’s next?

"We have to fight for abortion rights, but it is one of many rights that belong to reproductive justice, and that reproductive justice is part of the complex and dynamic struggle for justice."

"Once we realise that, then we are on our way toward imagining a transformative force that would equal and overcome those who promote hatred and inequality."

"We are gathered as targets by a well-coordinated Right, so perhaps we should decide how we want to gather, and for what aim."

Read the full interview here:

t.co/sQXh7virgB

For all her intellectualism, Judith Butler seems to have some rather simplistic ideas.

Left = good
Right = fascist = bad

For the record, I am a left-leaning gender critical feminist. Im not even sure what Judith Butler is, politically speaking. Martha Nussbaum's critique is spot on, though.

For all her intellectualism, Judith Butler seems to have some rather simplistic ideas.

I can’t help wondering if the company she keeps (being a genderist hero) has degraded her intellect. I understand there was never much there, there. But she used to at least manage to sound as if she might be saying something interesting. There was something to the little bits of her work that I’ve read, maybe it was just pure audacity but I could kind of understand how she became a big deal (though I did not understand exactly what she was saying!)

Now she sounds like… well, any of the TRAs that posts here, but with extra syllables.

Not just fascist enablers or open fascists, but nitpicking open fascists or fascist enablers

The fact that people are deported from Eastern Europe doesn't mean that
black people are not deported.

Mumsnet activists seem to be very keen on abusing those they disagree with, ridiculing their appearance, calling them thick and so on.

What? When did this happen? Is there a video of it?

Who’s Sue?

Is Feminism saying that a woman you don’t agree with has gone daft?

🙄 I know this isn’t the easiest concept for you but some of us use words to describe reality as we perceive it to be. We consider the truth value of the statements we make and try to say things that we perceive to be true. We don’t just say stuff because we think it sounds good or because we think it will help us score points off our perceived enemies.

I’d suggest you try it sometime but I honestly don’t think you’re even capable.

I was wondering that

anyone who is persuaded by Butler's writing needs to work on their self esteem

give yourself permission to acknowledge it for the bollocks it is. just because you can't understand it, it doesn't mean it's right....

So I’m a stupid ignorant TRA because I agree with Judith and will stand with her against attempts to restrict / ban abortion ???

is JB actually doing anything on the abortion question? She doesn't seem big on actual action. What would standing with her entail I wonder?

It's conversations like this that remind me why I stopped using the word feminist or feminism which now means divisive sniping at women about incredibly tedious and contentious politics, academics and incoherent burbly waffle that has nothing really to do with women or their actual sex based needs or anything of real importance. I'll just go with adult human female rights. That'll cover it.

All feminists will be resisting attempts to abolish abortion. We still have the right to question Judith Butler's views on gender, too.

Seems to involve telling women they aren't doing feminism right.

Any hate, abuse, gaslighting do report, MN won't stand for that and will delete.

Is your understanding of feminism as shallow as your understating of gender criticism? Feminism does not mean agreeing with everything any other woman says.

TRAs just really don't do nuance or debate do they? 🙄

Yes, I think you're right.

So if JB says women are not oppressed because of our reproductive systems, why does she believe women are oppressed? Just people chosen at random or is there something we all have in common?

I saw this post by Gia Milinovich yesterday and read the article she refers to twitter.com/giagia/status/1550448508242640897?s=21&t=dUP0O73NeN3Sx2PQS2sitg

It occurred to me on reading this thread, especially the posts lauding JB, even going so far as to call JB a feminist or claiming JB's work has been beneficial to women, that people like JB seem to be exactly what's being described here, in that the audience's expectations work to force compliance with the audience's own creed.

god, it would be nice to know this wouldn't it?

except she could never answer it, because there isn't an answer that aligns with her philosophy, in the same way as posters here run away when you ask them certain questions.

I’m a stupid ignorant TRA because I agree with Judith and will stand with her against attempts to restrict / ban abortion ???

lmao. I was responding to the other username.

@TheLassWiADelicateAir
Why are you bringing scenes of racial tension in the US into this? If you want to do that you should do so within the context of the institutional racism that exists here. I could easily respond with videos of Black people being killed by police, footage of white supremacist rallies or images of lynchings and race riots/massacres.
Racism absolutely exists in the US and is the cause of innumerable violations of basic human rights. Such an environment will inevitably lead to public discord.
Posters on this page are constantly decrying forced teaming but are perfectly happy to link things together when they feel like it.
For context, this incident occurred in the aftermath of a police killing of a Black man. I don't think FWR would appreciate it someone took an image of the protest of Sarah Everard's murder and used to to show that feminists are all hellbent on destroying society.

that people like JB seem to be exactly what's being described here, in that the audience's expectations work to force compliance with the audience's own creed.

That is a great article and it does seem to fit. Yes, there's absolutely no way she intended all this nonsense, I remember thinking there are basic incompatibilities between what she wrote and modern genderism. Though there are basic incompatibilities between modern genderism and any system of thought, provided it's coherent.

She's doing a great job of owning it though.

Why are you bringing scenes of racial tension in the US into this?

It's hard to be sure because of the masks, but I read all of the main protagonists in that video as white. It was not then a scene of racial tension, but one of ideological tension I would say, which I would think is why lass posted it.

Racism absolutely exists in the US and is the cause of innumerable violations of basic human rights.

do you think white people trying to intimidate other white people into raising their fist in the street will do anything about that?

For context, this incident occurred in the aftermath of a police killing of a Black man.

does context ever make trying to bully others into displaying signs of affinity with your beliefs the right thing to do?