Simon Rimmer's inadequate facilities

[boccajunior]

Lulabelle went to TV chef Simon Rimmer's new restaurant and was not happy with the unisex toilets

twitter.com/Lulabel06994981/status/1548085200407576582?t=MhkXwg2YEqjmfQiebhyTfQ&s=19

Just been to @simonrim's lovely new restaurant where I was disappointed to discover gender neutral toilets. Men and women awkwardly shuffling round each other wondering if they were in the wrong place. Yeuch.

Rimmer's been trying to defend them all afternoon but it's not been going well due to the fabulous, intelligent women making him look daft.

The lovely Maya Forstater has given up her afternoon to look into the building regulations and codes and it appears that she's unearthed some problems.

(warning long thread from Maya)

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1548348265791307781?t=zOcwHQP704sbKaRhGJE5Lw&s=19

Hopefully now he'll be forced to create single-sex spaces.

Note the layout for toilets in Maya's tweet where is the little square disposal unit for period products?

Men shouldn't have access to used san-pro bins - they tend to retrieve the contents and do the unthinkable.

One of the lasses had a period accident at school

she washed the front part of her skirt in the loo and although it was obviously still wet at least she could pretend that she’d been spashed

And I do know that there are lots more arguments for single sex toilets…very good and persuasive ones (not that i think we need them)

but women and children have al sorts of accidents that they can deal with in a female toilet but would be more difficult if a male was there

id like to say it goes without saying…but apparently people have to say it

Lets be truthful.

What will happen is the first drunk bloke will do what drunk blokes have always done, find a darkish corner and others will shrug and do the same.

@LK1972 I ever sais anyone was lying. That’s your interpretation and says more about you than me.

i have said that it sounds crazy to me. That I’ve never done that nor have I even thought about it. Despite flooding periods, blood all over my pants since being a teenager and now dealing with bladder issues. Believe me having heavy periods on
the top of incontinence isn’t fun.

On the top of it I have ever seen anyone doing that either
nor have I ever heard anyone saying they had done that. Maybe because they dont use ‘pads with wings’ (I’ve switched to the moon cup more than 15 years ago). Or Maybe because actually very very few people would do that.

But I stand by the fact that this argument isnt going to do women any favour.
As others have said on this thread, it’s nowhere near a common occurrence. I suspect a lot if people would find that idea disgusting (see the reaction about women washing a mooncup in said sink).
If we want to win that argument about sex based toilets, then let’s concentrate on things that people can relate to, men and women, rather than those that will make people roll their eyes. Rightly or wrongly btw. It’s just nit going to win us any votes.

Safety of teenage girls having to deal drunken men when going to the loo is going to talk to people much more for example.
So is the importance of having doors going from floor to ceilings (even when sex segregated).
etc….

singing

youre not wrong

BUT

if when its mentioned people just skimmed by it rather than saying they’ve never done or seen it we could just go straight to other arguments

If you say youve never seen a dog with three legs then you are going to get a thread full of people saying they have seen a dog with three legs

Oh dear lord, of course women have period mishaps. You're lucky if you've never had them.

It's often when you are young and your periods are irregular, or perimenopausal for the same reason, or starting a period after pregnancy.

You clear yourself up as best you can in the loo, and sort yourself out as soon as possible. No, women generally don't put on soaking wet pants. But the edge of a skirt, the waistband of a pair of trousers. Removing sanpro during a heavy period can often involve blood ending up where it shouldn't be.

The point is, this is all about female biology. Morning sickness, leaking breasts during breastfeeding, miscarriage.

Women's toilets are designed to take care of female biology, populated by women who are all in the same boat when things don't go according to plan.

They are not just 'a place to pee'. They are not the same as men's provision.

And whereas the majority of the time you are in and out, there are going to be times when that is simply not the case and then women require privacy and safety.

It's not difficult to understand.

My question to the naysayers on here is why the hell do you think women want sex segregated facilities?

If it's not to do with privacy, dignity and safety.

What do you think is the 'real reason'?

Do you think the 98% of people who want sex segregated facilities have some kind of ulterior motive to it, other than privacy?

If women worried about period mishaps and other nuisance bits of biology is 'unhinged', what, exactly are the 'legitimate' reasons in your eyes??

Or, aren't there any?

You said 'Youve done that in public toilet?!? Really?'

If it's not an implication that I'm lying, what was that 'Really?' about.

I wouldn't have minded this specific design if the cubicles were self-contained, for a reason I've given. Do you think this provision is adequate, now that you've seen other women agreeing that they have done this, or are you just here to tell me off /instruct what I should be concerning myself with?

It's odd that Rimmer said the decision to have unisex sex toilets was 'not taken lightly'.

It's as if they were going to be more difficult to install, he was forced into it, or he knew that it was an unpopular decision.

I guess no one's really knows what goes on in that head of his.

I can't believe some of the dismissive comments. Just remembering some of the period 'accidents' I had as an adolescent brings me out in a cold sweat. Some of the peri-menopausal incidents were a bit grim too but at least I had some years on the clock by then. If 13 year-old me had thought there was a chance of a man / boy walking in on me at such a vulnerable moment, I would have never left the house during my period.

If men find that hard to relate to .... well I think that's exactly the point.

You are missing the point.
According to the recomended/ standard design for public toilets nobody will have access to bins because they are not designed into the original standardised layout

Blimey. Women have been complaining for years about disposal units being an afterthought, and therefore being squeezed into a cubicle where your backside is half hanging off the loo to accommodate them.

It's unforgivable if toilet design, after all the talking about it, the Shewees, and the ridiculous contractions that festivals come up with, isn't taking this into account.

Wishing me a serious illness is vile.

Yes of course I have had incidents, though not recently as period pants are a fantastic invention. On the previous occasions I tied a jumper/coat round my waist and either went home or went and bought a new pair of trousers. I might dab at stains in an enclosed space but never in any kind of communal sink area. There are lots of good reasons for fully single sex or fully closed unisex but this is really not one.

My main issue with this is its already terrible for people with IBS and things like that when dealing with public toilets. I dont have it but got a bit of the experience when I went on some medication that destroyed my stomach for a few months. So theres now more sharing for people with these conditions who would like a bit of privacy and more toilets. If they are going to do it, always do it as an extra option with the usual systems in place.

@Bubbleteaaaaa Fibroids are only a serious issue because of flooding, and yes, it is serious in that respect. I apologize for saying 'kind of hope', should've used 'almost hope'.

This is a side issue anyway, and only one of the reasons why women need privacy/ company of other women who understand the issues.

It was specifically about the design of this particular restaurant, and the cubicles should have been self-contained at the very least, opening up back into the restaurant - to prevent other issues mentioned, like teenage girls being in confined area with drunk men, who frequently do not behave admirably towards women.

I don’t think any normal man is going to have any more insight to why some men do this than you have.

God, sorry, before anyone has a go - fibroids are also an issue if you're trying to get pregnant I think, though that wasn't relevant in my case.

It's the so-called 'normal' men that are doing this, they don't go around with a sign saying 'deviant' on their heads you know.

Because - although women are apparently expected to hold their menstrual blood in - men can't be expected to get through a meal without wanking.

@GCHeretic Sample size of one husband: 'Because men are dicks'. At least he's unlikely to be accused of misandry

I had to do this in a loo when on holiday and unexpectedly started a period early. I washed my underwear then dried with a hand drier. Then washed my skirt and dried with the hand drier. Ended up binning the underwear and finding a shop to buy new.
It did happen to me. I was in a female only toilet

How nice of you to leave, this would of course be after you’d seen the blood, or perhaps you expect the woman in question to tell you her predicament.

And I’m sure a nice kind chap such as yourself would stand outside the door and tell any other men about to enter that there’s a partially dressed woman in there washing blood off her pants, so they don’t go in before she’s finished.

It's really not extreme to want an area which deals with bodily functions and knickers round ankles, to be female only.

Even things like spilling something down your front. Going into the loo to dab at it is not something you particularly want to share with a room full of men. One of whom could easily be your date.

It's really surprising to me that people don't understand privacy.

It's quite normal!

But regardless of any of that women's boundaries should be respected we shouldnt have to come up with a list of reasons why we don't want mixed sex toilets

THIS, every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Why the ever loving fuck are we being put in a position where we have to argue for and give justification for female single sex ONLY toilets, changing rooms, etc.?

We do NOT want mixed sex toilets or changing rooms, neither do the vast majority of men who are decent, reasonable people who not only respect women's dignity, privacy and boundaries but would also like the same consideration given to them.

Enough. If those pushing this cannot or will not respect the choice of women and (men) for single sex facilities then the Government will have to bring in Legislation to force them to do so.