Simon Rimmer's inadequate facilities

[boccajunior]

Lulabelle went to TV chef Simon Rimmer's new restaurant and was not happy with the unisex toilets

twitter.com/Lulabel06994981/status/1548085200407576582?t=MhkXwg2YEqjmfQiebhyTfQ&s=19

Just been to @simonrim's lovely new restaurant where I was disappointed to discover gender neutral toilets. Men and women awkwardly shuffling round each other wondering if they were in the wrong place. Yeuch.

Rimmer's been trying to defend them all afternoon but it's not been going well due to the fabulous, intelligent women making him look daft.

The lovely Maya Forstater has given up her afternoon to look into the building regulations and codes and it appears that she's unearthed some problems.

(warning long thread from Maya)

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1548348265791307781?t=zOcwHQP704sbKaRhGJE5Lw&s=19

Hopefully now he'll be forced to create single-sex spaces.

Youve done that in public toilet?!? Really?

i never have nit have I ever seen a woman doing that.
mid i have blood in my hands, I clean them with toilet paper before going out. Very little to see when I wash my hands in
the bassin. Like any other woman?

I went in the single sex toilets in Morrisons; there was a very elderly there who had 'had an accident.' She was pulling up her knickers out in the hand washing area. She was slightly embarrassed but not too much, as we're both women.

Went there a week ago. The toilets are now unisex. Imagine if she was in there and a man had walked in. So vulnerable. I complained to the manager. At first he tried to reassure me, then he admitted that they had had lots of complaints, and he wasn't happy about it either. He said he was feeding back to head office.

The whole point of the thread and the issues with this particular provision is that these particular cubicles don't include basins etc.

I'm poor at managing periods so blood on clothes isn't unusual for me. With 51% of the population menstruating for some years of their lives, it isn't an extreme situation, it's totally normal. To call it extreme is misogyny. I am often wearing dark trousers so I don't always bother to wash them at the time, true. I'm also sometimes incontinent so manage that in toilets too. Incontinence is more common in women so that's a sexed issue too, though not entirely. My partner is about to start treatment for prostate cancer and is likely to have continence issues too.

If you would see someone washing their bloodstains out if their clothes in a toilet and would leave, why? To give them privacy? Bingo. Why do they have to wait for you to give them privacy? Why can't they just have it?

More likely you wouldn't realise what or why they were doing it and would stay, increasing their embarrassment.

Scampi are you disabled?

I have endometriosis. I know about heavy flooding periods.
i can say, hands on heart, I haven’t ever washed my knickers in the sink (why would I do that? They will be wet through). Nor have I seen someone doing that.
i simply have a spare pair of pants with me. I’d say that’s what all those women with
flooding periods do. At least all the ones I’ve talked to, wo exception.

I've seen women attempting to clean up her skirt while still wearing it ditto a top when a recently postpartum friend leaked. I've also been in a toilet when a women's waters broke.

But regardless of any of that women's boundaries should be respected we shouldnt have to come up with a list of reasons why we don't want mixed sex toilets

Yes, We have dear.

The bepenised one was kind enough to put a very nice picture up on Twitter.
The bepenised one may have managed to save on design and install costs and circulation space.

But why why why would you wash items of clothing when you can’t put them back on again????

i mean if you soil your trousers, you will wash them in the sink (Along with your pants) and then put them back on again, still wet? Is that the idea?
Or you’ll spend 30 mins trying to dry them with the hand drier - if you are lucky there is one?

can someone enlightened me as to the logistic of pants/trousers washing in a public toilet….

Limited blood stain. Wash it out. Wear it wet.

If not limited then wrap a coat/jumper round my waist to hide it or just hold my bag at crotch height.

@PronounssheRa thst was NOT the case that was originally made though.

The problem with the trousers/pants washing is that it’s actually detrimental to defending single sex toilet because it makes us look stupid.
Bring real, proper arguments. Don’t create and concentrate on issues that aren’t there. It wont help.

Sex based toilets are not about washing pants in the sink.

Yes, I have done that, more than once. Dried under hand-dryer, did not take 30 mins. The knickers are often fine, as wrapped up in towel with wings, it's a side leak on to clothes, not underwear, that I've had.

There are other examples on the tread of women doing just that. But sure, I must be lying because it never happened to you.

And where the heck do you live that you think it's lucky to have hand dryer in the toilet, is it UK, this century?

Love the attitude-it's never happened to you, so the argument is stupid. You and antifa would get along

You know how women had to fight for public toilets so they could participate in society? You know how they don’t want to share with men - regardless of how they identify? Double that fight for a disabled woman.

Disabled people have had to fight just as hard to get accessible toilets for DISABLED people. We have a right to them, we (disabled people) need them. You, regardless of your attempts to shift the “problem” away from the female toilets and into the accessible toilets, can f* off with your ableist bullshit and stop giving away our rights.

As I previously said: women fought for female toilets, disabled people fought for their accessible toilets. Trans people can fight for their own.

I go to a lot of rock/ metal gigs. Males usually outnumber females by a long way but during the intervals the queues for the ladies loos are much longer.
When arenas start providing gender-neutral loos for all and the men realise how long they're going to have to queue up to take a slash you can bet they'll be wanting their single-sex loos back.

It's but a 'stupid' issue due the women who need to do it FFS.

😒

The best argument is the one for self contained cubicles. Trouble is they are expensive in space.

not

We're not talking about The Restaurant at the End of the Universe here 😁

Luna yes. The able bodied should no more be giving away disabled spaces than men should be giving away women's spaces. And individual disabled people shouldn't assume that if they don't mind, then none of us do any more than the cool girls get to decide for all women.

You've no idea what my personal circumstances are so you can fuck off yourself. My point is that at the moment that one accessible toilet in the restaurant is being shared by disabled people and everyone who doesn't want to use a single-sex toilet - which is 98% of people. I'd much rather share it with 1% of people than 98%.

My teenage sons hate mixed sex toilets. They are embarrassed. They would end up waiting until they can go elsewhere. They really don’t want to bump into their school girlfriends in the toilets.

we need to stop this drive for mixed toilets. Single sex toilets were designed for many reasons but ultimately women’s safety and privacy. When my kids were in a pushchair I often went to the loo and left the door open so my kids could see me. How do I wash my period cup? Just awful and most men don’t want them either.

Many times I’ve washed part of my skirt in the toilets sink or taken my top off because I’ve spilt something. I’ve then dried them on the electric drier.

I agree my son would have been mortified too.

I mean, one week a month? How do yours work? I use tampons and that means giving your hands a careful wash as they have blood on them.

Hand dryers

They are also useful if you get caught in the rain.

But its not really and argument for or against that is it?

Its about how society continues to provide spaces for males at the expense of females

Note the layout for toilets in Maya's tweet where is the little square disposal unit for period products?
The nappy changing unit gets a rather small bin so it is not as if the designer did not think .. "some stuff should not be flushed, lets put in a bin"

mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1548380035899203585