Simon Rimmer's inadequate facilities

[boccajunior]

Lulabelle went to TV chef Simon Rimmer's new restaurant and was not happy with the unisex toilets

twitter.com/Lulabel06994981/status/1548085200407576582?t=MhkXwg2YEqjmfQiebhyTfQ&s=19

Just been to @simonrim's lovely new restaurant where I was disappointed to discover gender neutral toilets. Men and women awkwardly shuffling round each other wondering if they were in the wrong place. Yeuch.

Rimmer's been trying to defend them all afternoon but it's not been going well due to the fabulous, intelligent women making him look daft.

The lovely Maya Forstater has given up her afternoon to look into the building regulations and codes and it appears that she's unearthed some problems.

(warning long thread from Maya)

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1548348265791307781?t=zOcwHQP704sbKaRhGJE5Lw&s=19

Hopefully now he'll be forced to create single-sex spaces.

I was in the toilets of a Sainsburys cafe last week that had this arrangement, will not be returning.

The sinks are all in the communal area, a very quick glance of rimmers twitter account would show you that.

Rimmer also thinks accessible toilets are for people with disabilities, people who want more privacy and people who aren't comfortable with mixed sex toilets. So I imagine it's not a great restaurant for people with disabilities either

It’s ok people! Antifash imagines what they look like. Breath easy! Antifash imagines all problems away.

Also, 'communal bench with a drop' - what are you on about, is it the style of toilet you've seen somewhere? Is that definitely not acceptable to you, are you sure? why would you complain about that anyway, wouldn't that be horribly discriminatory against the minority community of exhibitionists? You sound like a fascist, disgusting behavior, off to reeducation camp you go

The women I know who were raped or sexually assaulted in public toilets (three of them as children) were either pushed or dragged into a cubicle and/or attacked by a man who was lurking in a cubicle. The issue isn't resolved by cubicles, in fact they are part of the asset of these spaces to predators.

Cubicles also benefit those men who get off on installing hidden cameras (and often uploading the footage onto porn sites) and those who get a thrill out of violating the spaces of unconsenting women as an end in itself. The latter includes men who deliberately urinate all over the cubicle or who wipe their spunk on handles or toilet roll. (Yes, there are men that do this. We know because some of them film themselves doing it.)

Can you articulate why you think it's better for women & girls to share their bathrooms with men (who commit 99% of sex crimes) rather than to not share?

Why do you need floor to ceiling walls and doors? And basins inside?

Is it because they need to add all these extras so that women feel safe when men use the same space?

I wonder why?

Here's you busy trying to find ways and means to mitigate the danger, when sex segregation is far and away the most effective means. And the most desirable.

And, of course, you're not realising that it makes it just as dangerous. Having floor to ceiling doors and walls, is still dangerous for women. The space becomes secret and more impregnable. Not something you want with men around you.

This reminds me of a poster who went on and on in a similar manner. What if we raise the walls and doors. Right up to the ceiling. And put san pro vending machines inside. Oh and have sinks and dryers inside too. What then?

The lengths some people go to to make sure that woman, their spaces, their services and their biology is entirely repurposed to validate them, is unreal.

No thank you. Keep out.

"our decision to have unisex toilets was not taken lightly. We have trans and non binary customers and staff.We also have a separate accessible toilet for any person who finds the unisex toilets unacceptable. We listen to feedback from customers constantly"

Given how small the percentage of trans people are - and I'm hopeful that non-binary will soon be seen for the attention-seeking, 'not like other girls/boys' tosh that is is, and be painfully uncool in a few years - you'd think the logical solution would be to build single-sex loos and then keep that separate accessible toilet for disbled and trans people. But I suppose that wouldn't have been as cheap.

And I'm another one who has washed bloody hands at the sink after removing a tampon.

who wipe their spunk on handles or toilet roll. (Yes, there are men that do this. We know because some of them film themselves doing it.)

I read a report at some point that said when tested a sample of male toilets in the pubs, bars and restaurants of Greater London ~70% were found to have traces of male ejaculate present.

I find it very hard to believe that you've never seen a woman wash her soiled hands after changing a tampon or rinsing out her moon cup.
VERY hard to believe.

Behold the calibre of man who is in favour of mixed loos. Yes, he is sitting on a toilet in his profile pic.

That is truly disgusting, can the men in this thread please explain why men do that?

I far prefer using a fully contained cubicle when I'm on my period. If I have leaked or got blood on my hands I'll use toilet tissue to mop up and change underwear in the cubicle. Then wash my hands thoroughly as I would no period. But not ever in my life have I done, or seen a woman washing out bloody pants in the sink. Using that as a reason against unisex toilets makes you look batshit.

But these are NOT fully contained cubicles. The sinks are in a mixed sex communal area.

Depends who he asked and how… and if he did.

will he back down and apologise?

According to Maya we have the law on our side so he'll have to do more than that.

NGL, I'll be happy to see this misogynist defeated.

It's the girls I feel for the most: new to the whole business of menstruation and struggling with erratic and / or unexpectedly heavily periods. Yes I've seen it, yes I remember it myself, and it's distressing and mortifying enough without throwing men into the mix. I have no intention of risking a deletion by saying what I think of anyone - let alone fathers of daughters - who try and wave this away ok but trust me, it is not kind.

Where I work there is a single loo cubicle just off the staff room. It’s all self contained - loo, sink, hand drier, San pro bin. A few of my colleagues have said that they wait until the staff room is empty because yes, you can hear peeing, opening tampon packs, farts… and this is more so when male colleagues are around. These are mostly young women who are supposedly the ‘new gen who love gender free’ stuff.

and what’s that about not getting bloody hands - I certainly do now and it’s horrible enough in a self contained loo. Communal sinks would be really awful, especially if there are men in there - can you imagine a helpful ‘have you cut yourself?) comment. 🥺

And how he asked. I’d be gobsmacked if 1. A definition of trans was used 2. It was made clear that the vast majority of TW are intact males 3. It didn’t imply only horrid ppl would say no

I’m sorry - but the logical solution is not to hand over the accessible toilets that disabled people fought long and hard for to trans people. The accessible toilets are the difference between people with a disability being able to participate in society and them being prisoners in their homes.

Trans people can fight for their own spaces - not take them from disabled people or women.

just because you haven’t seen something…doesnt mean its never happened

And on a separate note

and if mixed sex toilets are such an awesome thing why didn’t we have them…and I’m not accepting any answers along the lines of ‘to keep women down/in their place’ because we all know thats utter bollocks and frankly i get that cringy embarrassed feeling when i read those posts so fuck knows how the writer of such posts feels

If you think that's bad just wait till you find out what some men do with used tampons and sanitary towels

Have you never leaked on your clothes, not just knickers, in your whole life? I do not believe you, unless you're a lucky person with v light periods.

If that's the case, I kind of hope you get fibroids, with flooding, like 1 in 9 women do prior to menopause, to teach you a some compassion, although it's not an experience I'd wish on the worst enemy.

Given about one percent of the population are trans, and this is one restaurant, I can't imagine it's going to hinder the people who are disabled (to the extent that they need an accessible loo) that much to share. It's certainly better than them having to share with the 98% who don't want to use mixed-sex spaces.