Kemi Badenoch through to next round

[InTheCanteen]

If you have a Conservative MP and want to protect the rights of women and safeguard children please email them TONIGHT and ask them to support Kemi.

Penny Mordaunt still the bookies favourite (and they aren't often wrong) but we need to let everyone know how dangerous it will be for this woman to become PM; I don't believe she has changed her mind for one moment.

I'm left wing. I have never voted Conservative and it's highly unlikely that I ever will. But I am genuinely interested in KB, despite her political convictions being so at odds with my own. I admire her forthrightness, her intelligence and her courage to speak her mind and be her own person. She also comes across - to me at least - as more human than all the others in the running for leader.

I don't understand the vitriol that she seems to evoke given that (as others have pointed out) her position is not unlike most of the other candidates.

I think you've answered your own question there, at least in part. People can see Kemi is a likeable, forthright, intelligent and courageous person, and they know that because of that, she's a potential vote-winner, i.e. threat. She's also a threat to the left because she's a black woman, and therefore represents the contradiction to their narrative that black women are always and only victims, never winners. It would upset the narrative if a black woman was PM, because then the left wouldn't be able to trade so easily on their conviction that the UK is systemically racist.

I've watched several of her speeches and parliamentary appearance on Youtube, from her maiden speech onwards, and the comments are full of people saying 'I'm listening to a future PM'. These are comments made months and years ago. She's got it for sure.

Are you saying that Kemi has similar views to Lawrence Fox?

The hypothesis was “what if a white said the same?” It doesn’t really matter if it is Laurence Fox or anyone else, or their views in real life, but I thought he might be bolshy enough to say what he thought right or wrong.

No, I do not think LF has similar views to KB.

As K B has a particular individual intelligence and knack in cutting through to the essence of an issue in an argument, I think nobody else (white men, white women or other black women or men) would in fact have been capable of saying exactly what she said on that occasion.

I think part of the issue is the how incredibly reductive the "motivated by hate" trope.

The idea that the only reason people might think immigration needs to be looked at is "hate,"for example. It's low level thinking and also thinking that shows a real lack of awareness of what has happened to communities and factors involved in development immigration policy.

I suspect part of the issue is that there is a lazy assumption at the beginning that "hate" is behind any policy that the individual doesn't like, so they never really can get as far as thinking about it. The Rwanda policy is a good example. I think it's not a good idea, I don't think Rwanda has the social/political capacity to fulfill that role, and it's such incredibly bad optics that it just seems like a non-starter. But I can understand why someone might propose sending all refugee claimants through a centralized checkpoint. I've been involved in refugee resettlement, I know what's involved in the process, I know many refugees are in fact applying from such places now because that has been the only real way to manage the numbers of people, and I also know that it looks very likely that this issue will only increase in the future. I also know that the countries willing to host these kinds of places don't generally seem to be European nations - I sure as heck can't picture France offering to play that role.

Does that mean that this kind of policy, even if Rwanda was out of the picture, is the best approach? No. But it's a far cry from imagining the only reason anyone thinks it would make sense is "hate". It's a thought terminating idea.

No, I do not think LF has similar views to KB.

Laurence Fox and his supporters think they have similar views to KB

But so what @GCtothemoon ? That's their choice, surely, and nothing to do with Kemi. She doesn't support the Reclaim party - she's a tory! If she wanted to be a member of Reclaim I'm sure she would go ahead and do that.

I hate this guilt by association stuff. It's so incredible lazy. Low level thinking, as a pp put it.

So @GCtothemoon I just went and had a look at the Reclaim website where they set out their mission. I think there are some questionable parts but also some things I agree with, such as the importance of free speech, getting rid of net zero policies, depoliticising national institutions, equality for all. With immigration, I think it's very complex, but I do agree with Reclaim where they say we need to stop human trafficking. I think there has to be a proper conversation about illegal immigration. Do you agree with any of those things? Or would you take the opposite stance on all their policies simply because they're right wing, you're left wing?

It was in response to @ScrollingLeaves who had claimed the opposite.

Wind yer neck in.

Immigration will become more an issue as migration from uninhabitable countries increases

Labour will need to address it in a credible way with increasing numbers and behaviour changes that come with any policy

Just listening to radio claim that Labour will shift to centre for next GE, so not so tied to the unions. I could be persuaded by a more central Labour, if women were listened to.

It does mean a fight for central ground and shift away from left generally.

I think recent events with huge spending will result in this natural shift, but also future events will see the same

Again Aus is a good place to see where Labor keep sane immigration policies

There will always be people talking about ‘policies of hate’ but the electorate will move towards solutions - and it’ll just be the few that talk about it rather than run on it

Why do you think one should feel guilty if one agrees with Lawrence Fox?

Could you pick one, to help me know where to start?

Same…

Shouldn't Kemi be proud of having all these good people endorsing her?

Agrees with him about what, exactly?

It was your line of questioning which suggested that there was a Big Problem and huge “gotcha” with Badenoch agreeing in any way with Fox.

Im sure even you must share some views with Fox.

Don't be so rude. My comments are perfectly fine.

This isn’t AIBU

plus anyone can respond to posts

What are you even trying to say? You shroud all your little quips in sarcasm and doublespeak. Presumably to avoid having to explain yourself or so you can dodge your way out of answering direct questions.

Just say, clearly, what it is that you think. Is it that you think Kemi is responsible for what others say about her? If so, why do you think that? Is it that you think there's guilt by association, so you can just associate Kemi with anyone you like and then point the finger at her? Is it that you are hinting that Kemi is indeed 'proud' of being endorsed by Reclaim? If so, what's your evidence for that, and what's your argument as to why this makes Kemi a bad person/politician?

Certainly. Let's just go for your last comment. Just say, clearly, what it is that you think. Is it that you think Kemi is responsible for what others say about her? If so, why do you think that? Is it that you think there's guilt by association, so you can just associate Kemi with anyone you like and then point the finger at her? Is it that you are hinting that Kemi is indeed 'proud' of being endorsed by Reclaim? If so, what's your evidence for that, and what's your argument as to why this makes Kemi a bad person/politician?

@MangyInseam
Are you aligned with Focus on the Family? It is a right wing fundamentalist Christian organization that promotes its religious views ( I think that's great) but also seeks to influence American politics ( I think that's not great).

Their views include opposing abortion, access to contraceptives, gay marriage and adoption of children by gay couples.

Why do you promote this organization to women in the UK? Specifically, do you think that they would benefit from an organization dedicated to opposing gay marriage?

Brilliant! You’ve just proved her point!

Oh boy.

@GCtothemoon · Today 13:20

I had said ‘No, I do not think LF has similar views to KB.’

Laurence Fox and his supporters think they have similar views to KB
Kemi Badenoch through to next roundKemi Badenoch through to next round

I don’t know what views he was mentioning that you are referring to. If one of them is, thinking women and girls should have protected spaces, then like a very large proportion of people in the U.K. who agree (98% in a You Gov poll), he would have similar views on that issue.

But the point I am making is that in the specific context of that exchange with Caroline Noakes discussing a trans girl sharing a form with teenage girls, neither he or anyone else is likely to have so brought out the argument, and shown that it is not about trans hate but about sex based based privacy and safety, in the sharp, revealing way K B did.

C N intended K B to be revealed as a bigot, but that’s not what happened.

L F would have been called a bigot. Why not K B? Because she was a protected minority and so a useful mouth piece for a possibly bigoted view, because no one would dare criticise her for it?

No, not imo. It was because her intelligent line of questioning revealed an absurdity in Caroline Noakes’s stance. ( This was that everyone was about to see proof of the transphobia and bigotry of anyone who thought a trans girl shouldn’t be in a girls’ dorm.)

@Boxowine your last answer is hilarious, is it for real or sarcasm?

It's a simple question. Why bring up Focus on the Family?
They are either an organization whose purpose women in the UK would benefit from or they are entirely irrelevant.

So, are you in alignment with them or not?

It's extremely simple to repudiate them. If that's actually your opinion.