Penny Mordant as PM - nooooooo...

[Sidaway]

Genuinely scared now that she might win - looks like she's second behind Rishi Sunak in nominations, and the most popular with Tory membership.

If gender self-ID is passed in law, it's going to be so difficult to repeal. (I don't trust her not to try, despite what she said on Twitter recently).

So also scared now that if she wins, the UK will go the same way re. gender policy as the US, Canada etc. and the UK as a beacon of reason in the world on this issue will be snuffed out forever. (Sounds hyperbolic but think it's near the mark).

How can we campaign to stop this? I've already emailed an appeal to the nearest Tory MP to me about this, but otherwise feel powerless.

Thanks! I do try to stay in 'Careful Now' territory.

So basically you’re saying ‘be kind’? Why? Again, why should women give up their spaces, their language and their ability to name themselves? Gay people weren’t demanding to invade any other groups spaces, sending rape and death threats to people who did not agree with them, and demanding other people literally erase themselves for their benefit. So no, there is no comparison. I am tired of people using LGB rights and LGB people to make women submit to the trans agenda. No

What compromise are you asking the TRA to make? To let women have sports and a very few spaces? No, transwomen are not women and do not belong in ANY female spaces, intimate or not.

I’m very much gender critical but out of all the candidates I really really want Penny Mordant to win. She is so much better than the other candidates, some of whom are, in my opinion, extremely right wing. I think Penny is a very measured individual and would help to restore some respect to our country after all the damage that has been done in recent years.

Frankly, I am shocked and rather dismayed that Sunak has come out as top favourite. Reading countless comments about him online on various platforms it seems that a lot of people don’t want him to be PM. I’m guessing he has spent a lot more on his promotional campaign compared to some of the other candidates because he has the financial means to do so. Heaven help anyone who isn’t mega rich if he wins.

Fuck all.

Exactly. Funny how that works, I always thought compromise meant both sides gave something up, but apparently that’s another word that’s changed it’s definition. Well the #bekind crowd Dan #fuckrightoff

To many straight people, gay people were wanting to invade their space by wanting marriage. Laughable now, but the struggle to get even civil partnership accepted showed that gay people should know their place and their place wasn’t normal family life but hiding away in clubs. People who send death threats are nutters who send death threats for all sorts of reasons. They are there in all sectors of the population.
I know I’m a woman, I like being a woman but think that if someone born a man, but who feels they are female can call themselves a woman too. It doesn’t lessen me. I don’t feel I’m giving anything up. That’s thought is ridiculous to me. A trans woman has different physiology and will never physically be the same as someone born female. But they can still be a woman in other ways. I realise you may not feel the same but am sick of being treated like we’re one homogenous mass and all think the same. The problem is that polarisers on each side are screaming at each other.

That's cheering me up a bit and I am confident Sturgeon's Neverendum would be rebuffed whoever suceeds Boris.
But what if she had a brand new inexperienced cabinet of only gender identity ideology believers...are there even enough among Tory MPs?

I don't think you're alone @Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase. I think when it comes down to it, the Conservative party dont really give a shit about TWAW. Some may think it's not ideal, but they're not that bothered either way.🤷‍♀️

I'm hoping she doesn't make the final cut of 2 at all and then we don't have to worry throughout August.

So basically, just paraphrasing.
you are a woman, but a man can also be a woman If he wants? So what is a woman? So you’re fine if I say, I don’t want any woman to have an abortion ever, so yup, take the right of abortion away for everyone? Not my view but just as an example.

if words mean nothing and don’t matter, why can transwomen not just be men?
or again, is it just women you expect to budge over?

Have you told the side sending death threats to compromise and be kind? Have you told the side getting women sacked to’ compromise’? Or is it just women you want to shut up and move over?

trans woman has different physiology and will never physically be the same as someone born female. But they can still be a woman in other ways.

And the King and Queen lived happily ever after in the fair sweet land of Nod.

You see, you think that 'woman in other ways' is acceptable.

The Sports issue alone should have opened your eyes to the fact that a very large, loud group don't see themselves that way and would accuse you of being a transphobe for that sentence alone.

There is no compromise. There is only capitulation. Please see JK Rowling for references.

I’d like to know what ‘being a woman in other ways means’. @Subbaxeo please tell me what being a woman is if it’s not being an adult human female?

But they can still be a woman in other ways.

What ways are those?

@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase· Today 21:55

Frankly, I am shocked and rather dismayed that Sunak has come out as top favourite. Reading countless comments about him online on various platforms it seems that a lot of people don’t want him to be PM. I’m guessing he has spent a lot more on his promotional campaign compared to some of the other candidates because he has the financial means to do so. Heaven help anyone who isn’t mega rich if he wins.

I saw a promotional video/Ad campaign for Penny Mordaunt that was very slick indeed. I am sure it would have cost a lot. It was certainly a far cry from the simple old fashioned kind where someone would stand front of the camera and tell their views.

Grant Shapps had the right idea when he said he’s not interested in policing what people call themselves.

Hardly surprising from the man that has gone by the names Michael Green, Corinne Stockheath, and Sebastian Fox!

Although they did say that some of those "features" were invisible ? IIRC - busy in the kitchen while listening.

Thanks, Eleanor - great post!

But they can still be a woman in other ways.

Please explain how a male can be a woman in any way. Men and women are biological definitions. You cannot change your biology. You can lop bits off here and there but you still retain your sex.

If you are saying that you can be a woman based on sexist stereotypes, thats just you being sexist. Wearing certain clothes, having particular mannerisms, having certain interests or certain jobs does not make you a man or a woman. Thats just a sexist stereotype.

It is impossible to get away from the gender identity argument without using sexist stereotypes. It always returns to them.

Its regressive. This limits women and forces them into a box. If you don't conform to gender stereotypes there is something wrong with you and you should change your gender, get hormone treatment have surgery and just generally needlessly fuck your body up. All because you want to live back in a 1970s revival of 'a woman's place' in society.

I mean retro is supposed to be cool, but reinventing sexism for the 2020s and claiming its progressive, is impressively depressing.

A woman must be female. She can't be conceived as male, and then born (not assigned) male. Because you can not change sex.

Woman is not man. Man is not woman.

Do you remember when penny came here and refused to ask questions?

Well safe schools alliance have gathered them all in one thread. It's shocking she refused to answer. This isn't just about being gender critical. This is about safeguarding children which she is not prepared to support.

twitter.com/safeschools_uk/status/1547294625630765056?s=21&t=2bLWvX4oE--0ZorHodkG-g

Refused to answer question.

@Subbaxeo

In your posts you want to take the view that people should be reasonable and kind to those who want to live as another sex. Few people would disagree on that. But what is happening to women and children and language as a result of the cult of Transgenderism that somehow got into law, is turning out to be anything but kind or reasonable.

We are not talking about the very few people like April Ashley or Jan Morris, transsexuals quietly living their lives which there used to be.
This has become an aggressive movement involving a wide variety of forms of trans, which is now towing in non conforming children and tricking them into thinking they are in the wrong body with harmful physical and mental consequences, invading women’s lives. and using thought control through language.

I find this which you said troubling:

In reality the bogeyman of men pretending to be trans women so they can attack women is massively exaggerated. Men don’t seem to have a problem attacking women by being men

No men don’t seem to have a problem
attacking women by being men. That’s why women have some very few spaces set aside to be free of men.Trans women are also men who should not be in those few spaces.

I don’t know if you’ve ever checked out the,
‘They said it could never happen’ thread. I do think it comes across as dismissive to talk about the bogey man.

It is outrageous that the crimes of men in the form of trans women are recorded as being by women; and it is beyond any reason that that lie is supposed to be
part of a public record. As for the response of the police that ‘We can’t look in their pants’ (following a petition) they probably wouldn’t need to in order to know their sex, but it also comes across as a lame excuse given the strip searches including of children they’ve carried out.

Think of the woman who had been sexually assaulted by a man in the form of a trans woman who was penalised by the judge for not using their preferred pronouns.

Think of girls at school losing their privacy to teenage boys by installing mixed sex lavatories so that trans identifying people don’t have to have a third space; and that’s not to mention the known attacks that have happened in lavatories relatively rare though they may be.

Think of children not knowing when to trust their knowledge of something as basic to life as male and female.

The only compromise is that trans people deserve respect and care like anyone else. But not more so than women or children as a class, people of various religions, disabled people, gay and lesbian people. They should not have a right to demand pronouns.

It is is not all right to expect a lesbian to be attracted to a trans woman, and coercive to make them feel guilty if they are not.

And above all, it’s not ok to lie to children about the binary nature of the sexes, to start suggesting to them they may be in the wrong body, to push drag queens on to them, give girl guides trans women leaders; put children in mixed sex dorms because one identifies as another gender; or affirm children as trans without due care and without their families. or to put puberty blockers, hormones, or surgery any where near them.

It is not all right to remove the word woman and from language, use gender and sex interchangeably to cause confusion, or to talk about people being ‘assigned a sex’ at birth; or use DSDs to try to persuade people that sex is transient and mutable.

Yes, they developed their credibility with a totally different set of issues. But it was one of the NGOs that really was iron clad, along with Amnesty, UNICEF, MSF, etc. And it was already the case that on specialized topics there was a tendency to look to NGOs to recommend best practice for policies. (Personally I think this kind of thing needs to be flagged as a significant problem that needs to be addressed in any sector it's happening in.)

Similarly yes, it's relatively recently that the medical element has been on the table.

But SW presented it as an extension of what they were already doing, and to some extent the gay rights movement had already started to get a little weird at times. And then people saw that doctors and the medical system seemed to be making recommendations. and they assumed, pretty reasonably, that this was all based on medical evidence. Plus reputable popular science magazines and such.

In the minds of many what it was about was a group of people who had something like an intersex condition, and that subverted any trigger to look at the effect on women, because the underlying assumption was they were women in a meaningful way. Hence the importance of the TWAW mantra and also of stopping people from looking too closely at it.

It would be nice to think that people working in high level politics would have a better intuition about what might be a problem but they don't always. I have a lawyer friend who thinks that the fact that not so many politicians are trained in law now is a factor, I'm not sure if that's true but I would love to know what's going on with it. I'd expect the civil service to be on the ball with that kind of thing too, but it seems not to be the case.

It doesn’t lessen me. I don’t feel I’m giving anything up.

a) you might not be giving something up in your eyes. But you are happily giving up access to certain public spaces for muslim women and jewish women who culturally can not share certain spaces with males. This might mean they no longer go swimming or to a fitness session as the are forced to self exclude
b) you are potentially endangering health research. Someone claiming to be female but born male, taking part in a clinically trail could fuck up data and research. It matters hugely.
c) you obviously are comfortable with gender stereotypes. Not all women are. You are giving up how socially acceptable it is to be non-comforming. You are by definition forcing others to defend their right to be a 'woman who does male things'
d) by being a misogynist you give up the power of women to define themselves on their own terms. Instead you accept a definition in the minds of men.
e) you potentially give away the life opportunities of women. If a man takes a role exclusively for women: like sports team roles, education opportunities or pay equality because the pay gap can be disguised. Sports in the us can be a way to gain a scholar into university education. If its given to a male thats life changing.

Whether you feel like you aren't giving anything away is beside the point. You are looking at this from a deeply selfish and inward looking position.

And you are in effect, by doing so, giving away other women's rights and opportunities without giving a shit or even noticing what you are doing.

Your blinkers and self indulgent and self serving. You are happy to give away other women's opportunities without a second thought.

Its all me and I in your post. Never anything about women who are less privileged. Its an alright jack expression thats pretty vile and disguised as a trojan horse.

Only women are women.