Penny Mordant as PM - nooooooo...

[Sidaway]

Genuinely scared now that she might win - looks like she's second behind Rishi Sunak in nominations, and the most popular with Tory membership.

If gender self-ID is passed in law, it's going to be so difficult to repeal. (I don't trust her not to try, despite what she said on Twitter recently).

So also scared now that if she wins, the UK will go the same way re. gender policy as the US, Canada etc. and the UK as a beacon of reason in the world on this issue will be snuffed out forever. (Sounds hyperbolic but think it's near the mark).

How can we campaign to stop this? I've already emailed an appeal to the nearest Tory MP to me about this, but otherwise feel powerless.

@Norden · Today 17:43
“ScrollingLeaves · Today 17:27
If party members will get a vote, can one join now and still be included?”

You have to have been a member for 3 months to vote in any internal election. Pay £50 up front for the year and you have to live in the U.K.

It's a way more sensible and democratic policy than the England Wales Greens where it's 4 weeks, you can sign up to pay £3 per month, cancellable at any time, you can live wherever in the world you want. Hence TRAs all over the world winning internal U.K. Green policies.

Thanks for your answer, and the additional information.

Well no, obviously if they thought this was the right thing, they didn't see the implications.

An interesting thing about our political culture is that even a lot of people who are politically conservative tend to have this underlying sense of "the right side of history." People like May were often convinced by the inclusion of gender issues under the LGB flag, because they did not want to reignight any criticism about not being supportive enough in that area.

A lot of people also really believed that it's all scientifically supported, and that has a huge effect on how they think about the whole issue.

I'm screaming at PM (Radio 4) today. They are now covering the trans issue with two interviews - one, a think tank member who said polls say it's not an important issue, people care about the cost of living etc. and then they interviewed the chairman of East Yorkshire Conservative Women who was born with DSD and had characteristics of both sexes but who a who gabbled on about going to India to get surgery because they felt like a woman and who burbled the "be nice" argument. What the actual fuck? So Evan wots-his-name really thinks that DSD and trans are the same thing, or what is even worse described this person as a "neutral" view.

Sorry, so angry that I can't even post coherently. Hope you get my drift....

So Evan wots-his-name really thinks that DSD and trans are the same thing, or what is even worse described this person as a "neutral" view.

Please could we all contact Radio 4 to complain? Even Stonewall has now said people with DSDs do not come under their umbrella and that this was at the request of people with DSDs.

Evan is very ignorant about the issues related to trans really concerning people.
He probably thinks it is all unreasonable “hate”. and is probably a misogynist at heart.

Sue Pascoe's bio is at conservativewomen.uk/articles/about-sue/ Even having read it, I have no idea if she's trans or has a DSD. Confused and confusing.

According to this, lived as a man until aged 54 and fathered two sons: eachother.org.uk/woman-trans-past-define-who-i-am/

Also www.lgbtconservatives.org.uk/news/idahotb-my-story-sue-pascoe

Trans not DSD, it would appear. Even if there may have been minor cosmetic issues (who knows???) still functionally male.

A reference regarding dubious claims to be intersex on the part of transwomen. The only thing I could find on a brief search was on Google Books, hence the screenshot!

I don't think the reference gets at the real reason for this behaviour, honestly, but at least it documents that it is relatively common.

Daily Mail article with more info and preop photos: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163747/Master-Hunt-woman-age-54-marks-day-man-going-bowling-enjoying-burger-sons.html

I don’t mind her and am not a Tory. To me, Trans women are women-however some areas should be protected and have exemptions as in sport, intimate spaces etc.
Just as we have certain professions exempted under the Sex Discrimination legislation. I know that would upset certain activists on both sides but surely sensible compromise is the way forward? Btw, I’m far more interested in their economic reasoning, healthcare reform and investing in education.

So women give up their language and spaces, what do transwomen give up? What benefit do women get from this compromise?

No. That's back to front. Going beyond what is presented to them...The point being that they didn't think about women and children and the implications for them before running along following the male Stonewall agenda, which is very strong within their party.

I too think she's going to win and I'm worried as I think she's a liar. Unfortunately, as I suspected, Tory party members do not have the trans issue high enough up the agenda.

Has she said anything about conversion therapy? If she includes trans in this her position will be clear.

I suppose a question is, if she were to get the leadership, how strong a PM would she be? Would she control the cabinet or would she be having to placate her MPs?

SW had a huge amount of credibility for many years.

People thought that if doctors were recommending these medical treatments, they must be scientifically supported.

Lots of the women on FWR were taken in, some for a long time, do you think it's because they didn't care about women too?

Well that's weird. They certainly "look" trans and said they thought they were a girl as a child, but also on the interview said they were born with male and female biological features. But whether trans or DSD they certainly weren't neutral as Evan asserted.

Stonewall wasn't even about that for many years. (But even then it was essentially a male movement not least because the law affected men.) And I don't know which people where are supposed to have been thinking about medical treatments. That wasn't around much either. Women taken in; in principle, though, anyone can be taken in anywhere but in any case this is about a political party and ethos and that's where these women were operating. I didn't say they didn't care.
Didn't think about the implications for women and girls is something else. Feminism means different things wherever. Everyone knows about parties and party lines and expectations and how people don't necessarily think but go along. How anyone came up with the vague and poorly written and defined Gender Recognition Act is a good example of failure to think, analyse, recognise implicatons, reconcile with other laws, refine drafting, use precise and consistent terminology and so on. Parliament mostly wasn't thinking.

It is amusing to see her do a desperate U-turn

I wonder if other politicians who have said TWAW are beginning to question the mantra?

@Subbaxeo · Today 18:21
Re the last part of your post,

Btw, I’m far more interested in their economic reasoning, healthcare reform and investing in education.

For me TWAW, and the infiltration of non speak into every public body speaks of inability to reason and analyse in general. The shutting down of debate has been authoritarian. The physical and mental health of children has been put in danger through the ideology, and its creep into ‘affirmation’ only policy and gender identity teaching in schools. It is so dire that people may hate to think of their children even going to school to get indoctrinated but don’t have an alternative.

A lot of it has happened under this government, (though GRA Tony Blair) and has been happening even more in the US. Canada. Australia and on the Continent. But some among this government have started to listen and have pressed the pause button. Not so Labour. Lib Dems and Greens. They have dug in.

I hope it's OK to link to something I've just written.

eleanorscottarchaeology.com/els-blog/2022/7/12/the-unease-around-penny-mordaunt-a-mumsnet-explainer

It's on my archaeology website but I do a bit of politics as well.

I've just read this via twitter and came here to link to it!

We don’t get any benefit-just as straight people have no direct benefit from gay marriage. But I’m old enough to remember the horror when gay marriage and the idea gay people could be normal and not deviant was absolutely shocking. Yet it’s benefitted us all indirectly-people want to feel accepted and part of society whoever they are.
I think things have become polarised. Grant Shapps had the right idea when he said he’s not interested in policing what people call themselves. Yes, I do believe TWAW but not the same as someone who was born a woman. I think there does need to be protected areas-sport and intimate space. And I think that sensible compromise can work. In reality the bogeyman of men pretending to be trans women so they can attack women is massively exaggerated. Men don’t seem to have a problem attacking women by being men.

Thank you @EleanorScott, brilliant article. You were a whole lot more generous than I'd have been.😀

Hello @JulesJules very nice to meet you on here! Thank you for reading it.

It's a worrying time. Mordaunt is clearly a believer in Trans ideology, and the average person doesn't even realize it. I absolutely don't want her to lead.

But based on this evening the likely alternative would appear to be Sunak - and I'm convinced if he gets in, Starmer and the TWAW brigade will win the next election, and be even worse with the full backing of parliamentary Labour.

It feels like we're going down this dishonest, dystopian road regardless. It's SO depressing.