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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Penny Mordant as PM - nooooooo...

328 replies

Sidaway · 12/07/2022 17:08

Genuinely scared now that she might win - looks like she's second behind Rishi Sunak in nominations, and the most popular with Tory membership.

If gender self-ID is passed in law, it's going to be so difficult to repeal. (I don't trust her not to try, despite what she said on Twitter recently).

So also scared now that if she wins, the UK will go the same way re. gender policy as the US, Canada etc. and the UK as a beacon of reason in the world on this issue will be snuffed out forever. (Sounds hyperbolic but think it's near the mark).

How can we campaign to stop this? I've already emailed an appeal to the nearest Tory MP to me about this, but otherwise feel powerless.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 13:45

achillestoes · 14/07/2022 13:25

@TooBigForMyBoots

A lamppost?

🤣🤣🤣

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2022 13:46

Kemi seems to be the only one feisty enough to stand up to the trans fadists

She’s also planning to shrink the state to the point of nonexistence but of course that doesn’t matter.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 14/07/2022 13:46

Christ on a bike, that doesn't matter either, it's totally irrelevant to the point that people felt that it was an imposition.

I don’t know why you’re here talking to me about what you believe a pseudonymous third party believes about what some mysterious unknown third parties believe about some possibly physical but presumably metaphorical spaces that may or may not have been invaded, but it’s genuinely doing my head in and I’m not indulging it further.

the post didn’t say “some people thought it was an imposition.”

MangyInseam · 14/07/2022 13:47

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 13:37

Add to that, it's the women in the Tory party who seem to be only actual Conservatives.

Speaking super-generally, men do seem more likely to be on the libertarian side while women less so, so they may often be more from a traditional conservative perspective. Thatcher notwithstanding. Though in a way maybe it is really just a more moderate position, I'm not sure that there is anyone openly running as a traditional conservative type candidate. Baroness Nicholson is maybe an example of someone who is more in that direction?

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 13:49

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2022 13:46

Kemi seems to be the only one feisty enough to stand up to the trans fadists

She’s also planning to shrink the state to the point of nonexistence but of course that doesn’t matter.

If like me you want a small-a-state as possible. Then it does matter in the sense that I like her even more now..

DadJoke · 14/07/2022 13:51

She's clearly in favour of transgender rights, but it's clear from her lies on the topic that she would happily throw transgender people under the bus to get and retain power, so I don't think you need to worry. She'll simply not spend political capital on minority rights when the the current batch of Tory MPs oppose them.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 13:54

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 13:43

Do any of them? At PMQ's yesterday not a single word was uttered, from either said, about the 1000 or so vulnerable, young white girls who were routinely tortured and raped by Pakistani muslim men in Telford. The latest Labour run town found to have been encouraging sex trafficking.

NOT A WORD!

But only the Conservatives have been in power and actively damaging women with their policies for 12 years! Including cutting essential services like the police, criminal justice system etc to the bone. Have you looked at the rape conviction statistics lately?😱

MangyInseam · 14/07/2022 14:13

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 13:54

But only the Conservatives have been in power and actively damaging women with their policies for 12 years! Including cutting essential services like the police, criminal justice system etc to the bone. Have you looked at the rape conviction statistics lately?😱

What's your point? We all know this, where are you going with it? It does not change the fact that our other options don't seem much better and maybe worse.

What makes you think rape convictions being low is down to the Tories - it's a problem in many countries with different governments, even in the UK.

I don't think many people in any party would turn up their noses at strong policy options that could improve rape convictions, actually. Most people do care about that, but formulating and implementing effective policy is a different kettle of fish.

fizzywat · 14/07/2022 14:16

Has there been any poll to assess the importance to people of the trans issue?

Unfortunately many people couldn't care less, or are not impacted by it, and are much more exercised about living costs and energy supply at the moment. Timing is everything.

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 14:18

What's this "cutting essential services" claim got to do with the fact that nobody, from any political party still dares say a word about it. Even on the same week that the IICSA published a report on the matter?

lakeswimmer · 14/07/2022 14:28

I'm just dipping into this thread to mention that Women's Rights Network have got a handy email set up on their website for anyone who's gender critical to send to their Conservative MP to let them know this is an important issue for them. You obviously don't need to be a Conservative voter yourself. It's all automated and will only take a couple of minutes.

https://www.womensrights.network/conservatives-respect-my-sex

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 14:37

@MangyInseam, if I'm going anywhere with anything on FWR, it's safe guarding and protecting the rights of women and girls. Something this, successive and future Conservative governments aren't keen on.

The Tory policy of Austerity cut services to the bone. Including the services that investigate and prosecute VAWAG. Are you seriously saying that the Conservative government of twelve years is not responsible for the shit that has happened to women on their watch?

ScrollingLeaves · 14/07/2022 14:50

@fizzywat · Today 14:16
*Has there been any poll to assess the importance to people of the trans issue?

Unfortunately many people couldn't care less, or are not impacted by it, and are much more exercised about living costs and energy supply at the moment. Timing is everything.*

I just found this.

It is unfortunate that we all call this the trans issue as a short hand. The resistance against the harm that has been happening to children and women has little to do with being against trans people, but that is how it is interpreted by all the people who pride themselves on being kind.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 16:07

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 14:37

@MangyInseam, if I'm going anywhere with anything on FWR, it's safe guarding and protecting the rights of women and girls. Something this, successive and future Conservative governments aren't keen on.

The Tory policy of Austerity cut services to the bone. Including the services that investigate and prosecute VAWAG. Are you seriously saying that the Conservative government of twelve years is not responsible for the shit that has happened to women on their watch?

Tax burden at a record level, under the Tories. State spending higher in cash and real terms, under the Tories. "Austerity" has been an Osbornian lie since 2010. Also I'd say responsibility lies with the criminals. Unless you believe 'Tory austerity' is what drives so many pakistani muslim men to torture, urinate on, pimp out and rape vulnerable white girls on an industrial scale ?

No doubt it was a key factor in mass slaughter of children at the Manchester arena as well?

Abitofalark · 14/07/2022 16:22

lakeswimmer · 14/07/2022 14:28

I'm just dipping into this thread to mention that Women's Rights Network have got a handy email set up on their website for anyone who's gender critical to send to their Conservative MP to let them know this is an important issue for them. You obviously don't need to be a Conservative voter yourself. It's all automated and will only take a couple of minutes.

https://www.womensrights.network/conservatives-respect-my-sex

Thanks for posting that. It's a good email and I agree mostly with the substance of it. It's worth posting the main content, I think:

"I realise the country faces challenges. There are some concerns, however, that are of fundamental importance to me: protecting women and girls’ single sex spaces and safeguarding children. When it comes to the next general election, I will not vote for somebody who endorses gender identity ideology because of the huge risks it poses to women and children.

I therefore urge you to ask the following questions of any candidate you are preparing to support:

Their definition of the word 'woman'.

Whether they are committed to protecting same sex spaces and services for women and girls such as public toilets, school toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards, domestic violence refuges, local rape crisis counselling services and women's prisons.

What they intend to do about children being exposed to gender identity theory and overtly sexual RSE teaching at an inappropriate age at school.

Please be aware that whatever else you are told or may believe, this is a matter of the utmost concern to many, many women in the UK. If the new Prime Minister does not commit to taking those concerns to heart, the Conservatives are at risk of losing seats. Voters will desert the party at the next election in the same way that party members have left the Labour Party and the LibDems - and for the same reasons. Women are angry. Parents are angry."

Apart from the 'trick' question about the definition of 'woman', one key thing that's missing is any reference to the changing of the meaning and use of language and the replacement in official documents, information and data collection such as the census, crime or health statistics, or government departments' correspondence and policy documents, of the category 'sex' with 'gender' (ambiguously either sex or gender identity) or 'gender identity' or other terms such as 'non binary' whatever that is.
I do think that's an important issue for MPs and government.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 17:08

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 16:07

Tax burden at a record level, under the Tories. State spending higher in cash and real terms, under the Tories. "Austerity" has been an Osbornian lie since 2010. Also I'd say responsibility lies with the criminals. Unless you believe 'Tory austerity' is what drives so many pakistani muslim men to torture, urinate on, pimp out and rape vulnerable white girls on an industrial scale ?

No doubt it was a key factor in mass slaughter of children at the Manchester arena as well?

What do you think drives them @Sugerfree?😦

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 17:25

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 17:08

What do you think drives them @Sugerfree?😦

Cultural beliefs that are entirely at odds with the West, and a refusal to integrate.

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 17:31

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 17:08

What do you think drives them @Sugerfree?😦

You?

MangyInseam · 14/07/2022 17:46

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/07/2022 14:37

@MangyInseam, if I'm going anywhere with anything on FWR, it's safe guarding and protecting the rights of women and girls. Something this, successive and future Conservative governments aren't keen on.

The Tory policy of Austerity cut services to the bone. Including the services that investigate and prosecute VAWAG. Are you seriously saying that the Conservative government of twelve years is not responsible for the shit that has happened to women on their watch?

I don't see how you think your post is accomplishing that?

The discussion is about who will be the next leader of the CP, and specifically about PM.

Is there a candidate you think might be more in line with your POV?

MangyInseam · 14/07/2022 17:49

I mean, are you really trying to say that CP members are for rape, sexual assault, and other crimes?

Or that magically these things would stop under the LP, or some other party?

What does it have to do with the leadership race?

HipTightOnions · 14/07/2022 17:52

334bu · 14/07/2022 10:28

mobile.twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1547478831610695684

Her boss doesn't think much of her. Being interviewed by JBH

Lord Frost really isn't pulling any punches, is he?

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 17:55

HipTightOnions · 14/07/2022 17:52

Lord Frost really isn't pulling any punches, is he?

Frost has done for her candidacy it seems . It simply has to be Kemi. We need someone with intelligence, wit, charisma & above all courage. Kemi has all these qualities in abundance.

MangyInseam · 14/07/2022 18:03

I think she is awfully young, totally apart from any policy questions.

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2022 18:05

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 16:07

Tax burden at a record level, under the Tories. State spending higher in cash and real terms, under the Tories. "Austerity" has been an Osbornian lie since 2010. Also I'd say responsibility lies with the criminals. Unless you believe 'Tory austerity' is what drives so many pakistani muslim men to torture, urinate on, pimp out and rape vulnerable white girls on an industrial scale ?

No doubt it was a key factor in mass slaughter of children at the Manchester arena as well?

If you cut protection services this is what happens. Any fool knows that, just as they know that any cut in public services disproportionately affects women and children. There are currently 3.6 million children in poverty.

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2022 18:07

Sugerfree · 14/07/2022 17:55

Frost has done for her candidacy it seems . It simply has to be Kemi. We need someone with intelligence, wit, charisma & above all courage. Kemi has all these qualities in abundance.

What nonsense. She gathered more votes today. She’s in second place - but don’t let the facts get in the way of your prejudice.