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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Daily Mail: Young female detransitioner

178 replies

Ravenclawdropout · 11/07/2022 16:12

Chloe is a young woman testifying in Florida that her breasts were removed when she was 15 and she took "puberty blockers" when she was 13-16.

Do not transition your kids' is message from former trans girl, 17 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001029/Do-not-transition-kids-message-former-trans-girl-17.html?ito=native_share_article-top

OP posts:
Musomama1 · 13/07/2022 12:54

@FireFlyBoogaloo I agree that the misfits are going from music inspired subcultures to this faux 'human rights' activism and most likely are now the blue hair/ enby brigade, and funnily enough, cool these days! Imagine that, my goth mates and me were never cool outside of our niche.

But also whatever happened to BDD, body dysmorphia disorder? I strongly suspect that this is manifesting as gender dysphoria, BDD particularly affected young girls and guess what, huge trans take up in this same group.

FireFlyBoogaloo · 13/07/2022 13:53

Musomama1 · 13/07/2022 12:54

@FireFlyBoogaloo I agree that the misfits are going from music inspired subcultures to this faux 'human rights' activism and most likely are now the blue hair/ enby brigade, and funnily enough, cool these days! Imagine that, my goth mates and me were never cool outside of our niche.

But also whatever happened to BDD, body dysmorphia disorder? I strongly suspect that this is manifesting as gender dysphoria, BDD particularly affected young girls and guess what, huge trans take up in this same group.

I think there's likely a mix of all three. There's the age-old teen "rebellion trend", where being a green-haired enby is the new emo/punk, the RGOD element, which is the new anorexia/BDD, and the genuinely gender dysphoric who really do feel a painfully strong incongruence between their sex and their gender, a minority of whom may eventually be helped by an eyes-wide-open, fully informed physical transition. Combine that with the fact that "gender" has also become a sort of twisted facsimile for "personality", we have a culture that sees victimhood as virtue and trauma as a permanent feature rather than a wound to be fixed, and we're exposing children to an unsupervised internet way too young, where they can see all the worst facets of anonymous behaviour along with extreme porn and the "highlight reels" of the unattainable lives and looks of the rich and famous... well. If the adults in the room abdicate their responsibility—which in many cases they have, whether through ignorance, cowardice or confusion—it's a recipe for disaster.

My only solace right now is that when this moment is over—and I do believe that it will be over, partly because it makes absurd claims that cannot stand up to the merest scrutiny and partly because it's already getting a little bit uncool to have an "interesting" gender—I will be able to say that I stood up, that I always cared for the victims of this poisonous ideology even when it was risky to do so, and that I helped in the effort to bring it to an end.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 13/07/2022 14:28

beautyisthefaceisee · 11/07/2022 16:22

Sue for what?carrying out a legal medical process with her consent?

Sue for brainwashing a child into self-harming, for allowing untested treatments to be trialled on children, for convincing a child she needed surgery, for carrying out the surgery, for providing the drugs etc etc. She was too young to consent to any of this. Her mother was giving her testosterone injection FFS.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 13/07/2022 14:31

I've stopped despising the Daily Mail. I still disagree with most of its politics, but it is so right about this essential issue that I just thank god it's getting the message out. The Guardian is a disgrace.

And this story is heartbreaking. Following a biology class during which she came to the realization that she would never be able to feed her baby, Chloe said that she stopped taking testosterone injections.

How can anyone claim she gave informed consent, when she didn't even realise having a double mastectomy would prevent her breastfeeding?

ScrollingLeaves · 13/07/2022 14:35

Schools seem to be a self ID gateway from even a young age.

The second of those exam-name information links I posted yesterday seemed to be using the Equalities Act to back up accepting any chosen/changeable gender at school; and on the exam name part says it is for the school to decide if the exam candidate’s new gender name should be used. A public exam is like a legal document in some ways. It will also mean the candidate has a certificate that begins to set their teenage decision in stone.

That’s why the Cass report says ‘affirmation’ is not neutral.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/07/2022 14:38

@ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus
How can anyone claim she gave informed consent, when she didn't even realise having a double mastectomy would prevent her breastfeeding?

I looked up ‘age for breast augmentation’ at random and even there a clinic stressed that they do not advise it before age 20, and even then that it is not advisable if you might wish to have children.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/07/2022 14:40

That was apropos of saying what’s the difference between this and a 16 year old getting implants then regretting it. 16 year olds are not encouraged to get implants.

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 19:26

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 13/07/2022 14:31

I've stopped despising the Daily Mail. I still disagree with most of its politics, but it is so right about this essential issue that I just thank god it's getting the message out. The Guardian is a disgrace.

And this story is heartbreaking. Following a biology class during which she came to the realization that she would never be able to feed her baby, Chloe said that she stopped taking testosterone injections.

How can anyone claim she gave informed consent, when she didn't even realise having a double mastectomy would prevent her breastfeeding?

Well, FM said the same thing. That they didn’t realise they would not be able to breastfeed after a double mastectomy. And Freddy had their mastectomy at 23? 24? While at or just after finishing uni. And here in the UK.

And we have posters stating that surgeons are just doing their job.

No. If that was the case, Chloe and Freddy both would have completely understood they would not be able to breastfeed. A surgeon should be checking that all major side effects and ramifications are well understood before slicing of healthy breast tissue.

MeMe36 · 13/07/2022 19:30

I don't know what doctors are supposed to do. They get accused and threatened if they don't, but they also get accused and threatened if they do.

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 19:38

MeMe36 · 13/07/2022 19:30

I don't know what doctors are supposed to do. They get accused and threatened if they don't, but they also get accused and threatened if they do.

They need to first do no harm.

And they then need to work with other organisations to ensure they are not put in a position of being abused in anyway when they rightfully refuse experimental treatment paths for young people if they feel it is not appropriate for that patient.

And to make sure through their own research and evaluation that that patient has been given appropriate care and counselling to reach their decision to have extreme, elective body modification on healthy bodies.

Johnnysgirl · 13/07/2022 19:47

No. If that was the case, Chloe and Freddy both would have completely understood they would not be able to breastfeed
It's fairly stunning that anyone could really be confused on this matter Confused
I also find it extraordinarily bizarre that "planned future children" are even in the equation when you're busy removing all feminine body parts and denying that you're actually female 🤷🏻‍♀️

FrancescaContini · 13/07/2022 22:38

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 19:26

Well, FM said the same thing. That they didn’t realise they would not be able to breastfeed after a double mastectomy. And Freddy had their mastectomy at 23? 24? While at or just after finishing uni. And here in the UK.

And we have posters stating that surgeons are just doing their job.

No. If that was the case, Chloe and Freddy both would have completely understood they would not be able to breastfeed. A surgeon should be checking that all major side effects and ramifications are well understood before slicing of healthy breast tissue.

It’s extraordinary that a young woman who’s bright enough to go to university doesn’t realise that a double mastectomy will make breastfeeding impossible for her in the future.

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 22:47

Yes. But it just goes to show that even university educated people may still need to have this very issue discussed thoroughly.

And that even transitioned females satisfied with their transition can change their minds about having children.

EdgeOfACoin · 13/07/2022 23:01

It’s extraordinary that a young woman who’s bright enough to go to university doesn’t realise that a double mastectomy will make breastfeeding impossible for her in the future.

It also proves that there's no such thing as 'chestfeeding'.

JellySaurus · 13/07/2022 23:27

Yes. But it just goes to show that even university educated people may still need to have this very issue discussed thoroughly.

My very intelligent dd is off to uni in Sep. I have heard her explain the biological roots of women's oppression to her younger brother, and the biological reason for female categories in sport, yet she is also full-on TWAW and identifies as NB. There's no discussing the conflict in these with her, I'm too old and bigoted. I can only think that the cognitive dissonance is too painful to address.

And that even transitioned females satisfied with their transition can change their minds about having children.

How many of us always wanted to be mothers? I'm willing to bet that a substantial proportion of girls and young women, satisfied or otherwise with being women, change their minds about having children. It's normal!

NotBadConsidering · 13/07/2022 23:28

It’s extraordinary that a young woman who’s bright enough to go to university doesn’t realise that a double mastectomy will make breastfeeding impossible for her in the future.

Freddy McConnell blames Freddy’s surgeon for not fully explaining this when Freddy had a mastectomy and subsequently struggled with feeding Freddy’s baby. Freddy was 28 at the time, I believe. For reasons unknown not really Freddy remains silent on the issue of children having a mastectomy, despite personal experience of not fully comprehending the consequences as a very grown adult.

FrancescaContini · 13/07/2022 23:47

NotBadConsidering · 13/07/2022 23:28

It’s extraordinary that a young woman who’s bright enough to go to university doesn’t realise that a double mastectomy will make breastfeeding impossible for her in the future.

Freddy McConnell blames Freddy’s surgeon for not fully explaining this when Freddy had a mastectomy and subsequently struggled with feeding Freddy’s baby. Freddy was 28 at the time, I believe. For reasons unknown not really Freddy remains silent on the issue of children having a mastectomy, despite personal experience of not fully comprehending the consequences as a very grown adult.

Poor Freddy

TheBiologyStupid · 14/07/2022 00:14

Poor Freddy.
Absolutely, but for some reason my sympathy has its limits.

DdraigGoch · 14/07/2022 00:44

beautyisthefaceisee · 12/07/2022 23:15

are 16 year olds children?

@beautyisthefaceisee Given that 16 year olds can't drive cars, can't join the British forces (without parental permission and even then can't go to war), can't get married (again without permission), can't leave education,
can't vote (in most jurisdictions), and in some states (including Florida, the state in which this child lives) can't legally consent to sexual intercourse - did you really need to ask that question?

FrancescaContini · 14/07/2022 08:38

TheBiologyStupid · 14/07/2022 00:14

Poor Freddy.
Absolutely, but for some reason my sympathy has its limits.

I was being a little tongue in cheek. I have no sympathy whatsoever. Demanding a serious, irreversible medical procedure without asking probably the most obvious question beforehand smacks of…not sure…immaturity? Lack of responsibility towards oneself? Being too hasty?

IsItShining · 14/07/2022 08:47

I’m parent to an otherwise intelligent twenty-something who ties self in absolute knots at the mention of the sexes being physically different (or surgery being less than a perfect solution, or testosterone having known side effects on the female body, or oestrogen on men’s). It’s as if the brain just sheers off and can’t think about it in case they accidentally become a Transphobe with a capital T.

And that’s just a bystander to all this going on amongst relatives and friends.

FrancescaContini · 14/07/2022 08:58

@IsItShining I’m genuinely interested - how does she get through the day like this?

IsItShining · 14/07/2022 09:37

Badly (sorry to be predictable but autism is involved).

IsItShining · 14/07/2022 09:38

That's one reason that I've been plainer than usual in my explanation that there is no actual way of making a man into a woman in anything other than a visual or legal sense.

IsItShining · 14/07/2022 09:39

The whole 'Urgh don't even say that or people might die' reminds me of the worst throes of (genuine and serious) OCD, in fact.