Daily Mail: Young female detransitioner

[Ravenclawdropout]

Chloe is a young woman testifying in Florida that her breasts were removed when she was 15 and she took "puberty blockers" when she was 13-16.

Do not transition your kids' is message from former trans girl, 17 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001029/Do-not-transition-kids-message-former-trans-girl-17.html?ito=native_share_article-top

It's the NHS who came up with that rule originally. The idea being that young people would have that appearance for a period of time before making the permanent decision.

Are there specific types of 'appearance' which are deemed suitable for only men or only women? Is there a list?

Trans people cant win here. If they dont transition, they're men trying to break into womens bathrooms, if they do transition they're wrong ans ruining their bodies, if they have mental health issues that's denied, . The other side will nor ne happy until trans is eradicated and that is wrong. They also need to acknowledge the damage they are doing with their opinions.

What do you mean by 'transition'? Many people who identify as trans make no changes at all to their bodies. Over 90% of so-called 'transwomen' have a penis and have no intention of changing that (I think it might be a lot more than 90%, but I'm not sure of the actual figure).

It seems that it's only children who are really targeted to make physical changes to their bodies, often in early puberty, when they cannot possibly understand what effect this will have on their lives as adults.

Who is really doing the damage here?

Some trans people's dysphoria is cured by just changing their appearance and not having any surgery. Some choose not to have bottom surgery due to the risks, regardless of whether that part is dysphoric for them or not.

16 is considered Jail bate for sex in the US, age of consent is 18 in Florida and most others if I remember correctly.

The language you are using, Beauty, is not remotely neutral.

Why are you saying 'the other side'? It is entirely possible to want the best outcome all round, where trans people are left bodily whole; and people are accepted as trans, with full access to proper care and facilities and jobs, but do not enter opposite-sex facilities where their presence would exclude others.

I remain staggered that this makes one 'the other side' as if it's a war.

until he other side recognise their role,

Women are not service humans, there to provide everything makes want.

I think she should sue the surgeon and the prescriber of testosterone. The medical profession in the US seems incapable of setting reasonable standards of care for treatment of pre-pubescent and pubescent children who present with gender dysmorphia. They might think more seriously about it if they get sued for performing an operation on a 15 year old that is irreversible, deeply affects sexuality and maternity, and has significant risks in and of itself. No 15 year old should be able to consent to that. When my dd went to get her ears pierced under age 16, I had to bring my birthcert and her birth cert and id for both of us to prove her actual mother was consenting to this. For a pair of earrings.

I honestly believe that this won't stop until insurance companies get involved and doctors realise that they are carrying risks too. Even if Florida bans the treatment, teens will go elsewhere and people will think it is the same issue as having to travel for an abortion. it isn't.

it drives me nuts that this has become a political issue in fucking Florida with that piece of shit de Santis and he has managed to tack on anti-gay measures with this. Where is the medical profession in this? Bleating on about gender affirming care as if it is just a nice therapist saying "tell me more about you being a boy" (although my experience of therapy for my dd at that age was the therapist gently pushed back at some of her thoughts and takes on life which was a big part of therapy being effective) instead of it being unnecessary hormones, unnecessary surgery and a huge impact on sexual function and pleasure for the rest of these poor kids' lives.

It's interesting that when you use a group, sex-neutral pronoun, it turns out from context that you are talking about male people, and what some male people want and how people might treat male people, on a thread about a female detransitioner. The sex-neutral pronouns make the centring of males less obvious.

No, we don't want male people in our changing rooms, swimming pool showers, hospital wards, prisons, or providing intimate care to disabled women. What exactly has that got to do with a female detransitioner?

Now, it's hardto do that, because of all tbe barriers the other side have put k their way.

What barriers? There has never been a time when it has been more accepted to be trans. Are you really arguing that it is the fault of women that people rush to have surgery/take hormones because otherwise the big meanies won't allow them to use the loo? Would it occur to you that someone who would chop his penis off simply to use women's spaces might have bigger issues to explore and the penis op mightn't be the cure he think it will be.

@beautyisthefaceisee the majority detransition stories I have seen are girls who have transitioned to become boys. As the stats show the number of natal females wanting to become men has increased drastically in a very short period of time.

Medical professionals who have access to this data have a responsibility to try to understand why. There should be extensive counselling and talk therapy to identify whether there are underlying issues before any permanent physical changes are made. Puberty blockers, hormones and surgery shouldn't be prescribed or allowed on the back of a couple of 30 minutes consultations which is what Kiera Bell described in her testimony and what has been proven in the GenderGP case.

How many 13 yr old (or younger) girls can really appreciate the long term impacts of puberty blockers, do you really think they grasp the physical consequences of reduced bone density on their long term physical health and mobility? Puberty is a key stage of development for height, fertility, brain development, and the data does not exist to quantify the probable and possible side effects. I've seen many people argue that puberty blockers have been used for years in children successfully but they were used to treat precocious puberty which in itself can cause harmful effects in your children. The medication is a treatment for a physical problem, used for the shortest time possible and to correct a hormonal imbalance. Not to cause a hormonal imbalance.

I can see no valid reason why anyone under the age of 18 should be considered capable and allowed to medically transition, do what you like with hair, make up and clothes but permanent and potentially disfiguring surgery or hormones that cause chemical castration should be off the table.

There are also negative side effects for those children who don't detransition, who do remain Trans and go on to medically transition, just look at Jaz Jennings who started taking puberty blockers early, therefore not developing a mature penis, this meant that there wasn't enough 'material' to work with to form a vagina, leading to the surgeons having to take flesh from her thigh and multiple complications that caused issues with ongoing healing and reconstruction. Do you think that as a pre-teen Jaz was able to fully comprehend that the puberty blockers could cause those kind of effects? Or that going onto blockers before puberty may mean that she would never be capable of experiencing an orgasm?

There is just too much unknown and too many consequences that I don't believe a child can fully comprehend for me to ever be comfortable with medicalisation pre-18.

Don't feed this tangent.

The issues that drive transition in female youth, male youth and older men are very different, but some people just can't resist the temptation to make everything, everywhere about male issues.

This is about a female teenager's health issues. In this country she wouldn't be able to have a tattoo yet, because it's permanent body modification, but she's been allowed to have a mastectomy.

Well if we had our way this wouldn't have happened to her because it would be illegal to abuse children in this way (just as it would be illegal to starve an anorexic child). So we're not the ones causing this damage, clearly.

See how obtuse you're being? This is the problem. and I see it first hand.

I personally don't believe that you can "Look like" the opposite sex, but I'm not trans, and I am astute enough to understand that someone can feel differently.

Yes, I'm aware of the transition statistics.

Everyone is doing the damage. All of us. And pretending that trans people are either evil or mindless victims and that feminists are right and perfect will not help the issue.

It's pretty rude of you to tell other people not to engage with my perfectly valid point. Who do you think you are to do that? Very entitled posting.

It's not about male issues, though, is it? Despite your attempt to post me out as misogynistic, it was nothing like. Once again you are pretending only males can be trans. My friend is a transman - so according to you she's a woman - so do her "issues" not matter then? She was a female teenager once.

I wasn't talking about male people. But me talking about biologically born females doesn't suit your agenda, so you are ignoring them (desite the fact that ALL of my references to trans people I know, friends and pupils, are transmen). The reason I used a neutral pronoun is because they're bloody trans, and I cba wiht the "shes a woman" "hes a man" " you cant change sex".

I agree with all of your points in your second paragraph.

My point is, if you actually read what I'm saying instead of jumping to the same old boring trotted out dismissive lines to women who don't agree with you, is that we are part of the problem. if she is a female detransitioner, she presumably was always quite conflicted, unless she got up yesterday and changed her mind. If, by your logic, transitioning is a mistake, what are we actually doing as a society to help trans people?

IME, Mock, dismiss, sneer at, deny their identity, and then when they go to desperate measures, wring our hands and suddenly care about her welfare.

Yet you care about a detransitioner.

Wonder why.

I mean, you can continue to deny responsibility, but the issue will therefore go on and on and on.

Poor poor girl, you can hear the heartbreak in her voice when she speaks about how she cannot feed any children she may have.

At risk of certain cancers.

She's been so badly let down by the adults around her.

The surgeon should be struck off. How can they do this to children?

How you can make even a tangential equivalence between shagging your boy/girlfriend to surgery with life long and irreversible outcomes is just plain bonkers.

@beautyisthefaceisee I find your lack of empathy for what this girl went through a bit disturbing tbh

As far as the issue of consent goes, I'm just a layperson and not a doctor or lawyer but I really think this needs to be scrutinised in the courts. I don't really understand how a child can give informed consent for an operation with apparently no evidence base and that damages/destroys healthy parts of the body.

Of course he shouldn't. He performed a legal procedure. Morally I agree, but by that theory I think anyone who performs boob jobs should be.

I have massive compassion and empathy for her., fgs. Massive. I work with teenagers, I'm a woman, I have godchildren.

What I don't agree is that the surgeon can be struck off/lose his license. That doesn't make me any less compassionate.

Foot stamping and "he shouldn't have done it" doesn't change the fact that he did.

What I'm getting at is as a society we need to look at our role of how she ended up in his office in the first place.

We are blaming the wrong people.

"shagging your boy/girlfriend" nice.

My point is, I can see why she thought she was ready, we send out mixed messages. I've always thought sex should be 18.

Beauty, can you see that it's hard to understand you when you say
'If they dont transition, they're men trying to break into womens bathrooms'

followed by
'I wasn't talking about male transitioners'?

So what would your plan be to help trans children, then? They don't disappear into a puff of smoke because you ban transition.

For what it's worth, I totally agree.