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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Daily Mail: Young female detransitioner

178 replies

Ravenclawdropout · 11/07/2022 16:12

Chloe is a young woman testifying in Florida that her breasts were removed when she was 15 and she took "puberty blockers" when she was 13-16.

Do not transition your kids' is message from former trans girl, 17 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001029/Do-not-transition-kids-message-former-trans-girl-17.html?ito=native_share_article-top

OP posts:
54isanopendoor · 12/07/2022 11:14

beautyisthefaceisee · 11/07/2022 16:45

Not in scotland (or shouldn't be)

We can refer to them by their chosen name but not officially, on the register, or on any paperwork.

We have one transitioned who doenst hahe parental approval - all their exams were sat in their dead name.

Absolutely what I was told.
Phone call, out of the blue, to say that Dd A had 'disclosed' to School that He wanted to be referred to as Z. Register could be changed, Exam listings could be changed. No consent needed (for a 14 y/o Autistic child with selective mutism) as 'we checked & he is above the age band for needing parental approval'.
South of Scotland area.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/07/2022 14:06

“No consent needed (for a 14 y/o Autistic child with selective mutism) as 'we checked & he is above the age band for needing parental approval'.”

“South of Scotland area.”

I wonder if you should write to Baroness Nicholson? And/or what is the new person who in is charge of Education like?

People with autism are apparently disproportionally vulnerable to being sucked in and harmed by this ideology.

The interim Cass report made it clear that ‘affirmation’ is not neutral. It can set up a pathway to medical interventions when had the child been left in peace, they would most likely desist later.

Have you contacted the Safe Schools Alliance for advice?

54isanopendoor · 12/07/2022 15:47

@ScrollingLeaves thank you for your reply - it is really helpful. I might do that...
My concern is that my Dd is 14 &, due to her Autism, struggles to choose a flavour of ice cream / pizza etc so she / he is in NO WAY at a point to make permanant decisions about whether she is male or female etc. & shouldn't be put in the same category as an NT child (who shouldn't be making these decisions / being led by school at this age either tbh).
I have spoken to another parent at that school whose child went through a similar process & is now out of school entirely due to bullying. My ds says the anti LGBT++ but especially the anti 'trans' bullying is awful. So, staff seem to promote it (giving out Pride badges, inc trans ones to kids) & kids bully over it.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/07/2022 16:26

*54isanopendoor+ · Today 15:47
O wish I could help more.
I am so sorry for you and your dc. I would be beside myself in your shoes, and completely sympathise.

Here is what the Safe Schools Alliance says on this subject. But maybe someone there could advise you more specifically too.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/08/22/advice-for-parents-on-social-transitioning-by-schools/

There seem to be regional variations.

What did the other child do who is now out of school? Is there anyway you could make similar arrangements?

I don’t know if this advice would equally apply to an autistic child, but I have heard it can be important to keep them away from the internet as much as possible. Try to do activities together so you are in a ‘group’ of support and love that is independent from the noxious peer group. Do outdoor things that bring nature, body and mind together naturally. Spend time with animals.

Do you know if the LGBT club at school has a mixed age group with older children? Who supervises? Your child is under age and there could be safe guarding issues. There was a thread about this a few months ago. I wonder if anyone else remembers it? Knowledgeable posters had some very good suggestions.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/07/2022 16:37

@54isanopendoor Today 15:47

This is a link to The Bayswater Support Group which has analysis of the role played by schools based on the interim Cass Report.

This is another organisation that might be some help.
www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/the-cass-review-interim-report-the-significance-for-schools/

ScrollingLeaves · 12/07/2022 21:53

This article is about schools here pushing gender ideology.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/02/telling-lies-parents-anger-schools-pushing-trans-ideology-children/

beautyisthefaceisee · 12/07/2022 23:15

DdraigGoch · 12/07/2022 00:11

If a surgeon performed a breast enlargement upon a child then yes they should be struck off.

are 16 year olds children?

beautyisthefaceisee · 12/07/2022 23:16

54isanopendoor · 12/07/2022 11:14

Absolutely what I was told.
Phone call, out of the blue, to say that Dd A had 'disclosed' to School that He wanted to be referred to as Z. Register could be changed, Exam listings could be changed. No consent needed (for a 14 y/o Autistic child with selective mutism) as 'we checked & he is above the age band for needing parental approval'.
South of Scotland area.

IME, exams have to be sat in dead name without parental consent.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/07/2022 00:31

Are you sure the school is correct?
This says names must link to birth certificate.

childrenslawcentre.org.uk/faqsyp/can-my-exam-records-entries-certificates-be-updated-to-reflect-my-name-change/

But there again this says the school can decide. What confusion.

www.theexamsoffice.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/21-22-Managing-entries-Candidate-names-and-gender-identity.pdf

PaterPower · 13/07/2022 01:41

are 16 year olds children?

Pretty irrelevant question, given that the OP is about a 15 year old who was given a mastectomy. Besides that, the question depends on which country you’re in.

Sticking to the UK, the age of adulthood is 18, as defined in the Children’s Act. 16-17 year olds are obliged by law to continue schooling or equivalent training until they’re 18. They can’t vote, they can’t get a mortgage or credit, and can’t be sent to a conflict zone as a member of the Armed Forces.

They’re not allowed to drive unsupervised (legally anyway) or buy alcohol. They can’t get tattoos or piercings other than in their ears. In some circumstances, primarily involving teachers and others in positions of trust, they can’t be deemed to have consented to sex. If they commit crimes at 16 their age is factored into sentencing.

In any country, their brains won’t stop developing until they’re in their early twenties and their hormones won’t have settled until around then either.

We don’t treat 16 year olds, legally or socially, as adults. No surgeon should be going anywhere near a 16 year old’s healthy breast tissue - whether to remove it or to add anything to it.

timeisnotaline · 13/07/2022 01:45

beautyisthefaceisee · 11/07/2022 16:32

No, no one is actually saying anything like that. That's a very flippant and biased way of looking at It.

I never said I agreed with it, but its perfectly legal and she doesnt have a leg to stand on.

That’s not necessarily true. Was she fully informed re the impact, did the doctors perform due diligence that this was the right treatment for their patient, was it presented clearly enough and was she capable of understanding it, and her age could be relevant to these assessments.

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 02:25

You can’t just dismiss the “yeet the teats” woman as an extreme example: she’s literally the best known surgeon in the US who does it. She’s all over youth social media as a great trans saviour!

This surgeon was constantly posting how positive double mastectomies were across social media. Social media aimed at young people.

Pictures of happy smiling females with double mastectomies. Many under 18. All I saw, I judged to be that age.

And she is not the only US surgeon doing this across social media.

How is it that surgeons are not responsible for their influential actions? They are focused on advertising their services for these operations.

And I strongly disagree that surgeons are just ‘doing their job’. This is elective surgery. If a surgeon has not gained informed consent, they should most definitely be liable for being sued. Absolutely they should.

FrancescaContini · 13/07/2022 02:34

Agree with everything you say, @Helleofabore

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 02:43

54isanopendoor · 12/07/2022 11:14

Absolutely what I was told.
Phone call, out of the blue, to say that Dd A had 'disclosed' to School that He wanted to be referred to as Z. Register could be changed, Exam listings could be changed. No consent needed (for a 14 y/o Autistic child with selective mutism) as 'we checked & he is above the age band for needing parental approval'.
South of Scotland area.

I have two friends who have had their daughter’s school change the school records of their daughters. Both were 14 at the time.

There has been a strong denial that this happens from some posters despite people posting previously that it does indeed happen.

Helleofabore · 13/07/2022 02:45

are 16 year olds children?

This is an eye opening post?

We are discussing mastectomies! Yes, under 18 are minors.

FireFlyBoogaloo · 13/07/2022 04:46

beautyisthefaceisee · 11/07/2022 19:18

So the parents are blameless, are they?

You cannot be serious.

The parents are blameless as regards the surgery, yes.

We know that there is a growing consensus on the social contagion of ROGD. Kids (especially but not exclusively girls) who would have been "emo" in years past, or anorexics, or punks, or hippies etc. are now becoming "trans" instead.

For many, this goes as far as a haircut and a coming out as "enby". But for some, usually those with something else going on, like a mental health issue or a neurodevelopmental disorder, it goes further.

Parents who could previously let their little emo kids drown in kohl pencil and weird haircuts are now facing huge pressure from society, schools and their own, indoctrinated, script-holding children, to pay great "affirmative" attention to their child's teenage phase.

They don't know where to turn when faced with threats of ending up with a "dead daughter" if they don't go along with their "alive son" (or vice versa), so they turn to health professionals—people who are ostensibly there to look out for the best interests of their patients—for help. Often they are immediately, and with very little exploration of alternative explanations for their child's distress, set on a course of affirmative care that will see their children medicalised and surgically altered. And they go along with it, partly because they are bombarded on all fronts with threats that their children will die if they do not, and partly because they trust health care professionals and don't realise that what they are doing is akin to starting chemotherapy on the basis of a bruise.

I understand your point about taking a broader view in terms of the causes of the ongoing transing trend among youngsters. I personally feel that little girls and little boys are receiving dreadful cues from society that are made all the worse if they're GNC. It must be devastating for the bookish little girl who likes rolling in mud and doing woodwork to look around at her Love Island worshipping piers and feel like she is "wrong", just as it must be awful for a tender, sweet little boy to look around him and see a society that brands him as "toxic" before he's even learned to read. I count myself supremely lucky that when I was a GNC little girl with undiagnosed ADHD in the 80s, my mother cut my hair, let me roll in mud, and bought me magazines about bugs instead of trying to "fix" me or telling me there was something wrong with me.

But all of that withstanding, I cannot and will not blame parents for trusting medical professionals. We should be able to do that. We should at least be able to do that. So for as long as the medical professionals to whom these parents go, desperate and confused, continue to push children along an experimental path they know to be a one-way street to lifelong medical dependence (and they must know), the majority of the blame lies with them.

Perhaps they're not individually legally liable, but someone, at some point, must be. Because anyone with an ounce of sense could see the harm coming from a hundred Reddit posts away.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/07/2022 11:05

FireFlyBoogaloo · Today 04:46

Thank you for putting that so well.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 13/07/2022 11:29

Of course 16 year old children are children

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 13/07/2022 11:34

Great post *fire

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 13/07/2022 11:34

Oh bum

fire

NotBadConsidering · 13/07/2022 11:52

It’s a consistent feature of trans ideology: to mature (verb) children beyond their years. For reasons unknown, somehow gender kids are sooo much more mature, sooo much more capable of knowing what they want or need, sooo much more capable of autonomy, soo much smarter than all the transphobic adults or doctors who might say no to them.

No one has ever given a clear explanation of how this cohort of children are any different to any other cohort of children. Why are they special? Why are they better at consent compared to, say a group of anxious or depressed children who aren’t questioning their gender?

They are not at all. They are not special. They are not overall smarter, capable or insightful. They are not more vulnerable, nor are they less vulnerable. I have seen this. I have seen children who have intellectual impairment who have been puberty blocked.

But what happens is there are children who are expressive, articulate, intelligent, who are held up as poster children to represent all gender questioning children. But even those children cannot fully consent. Because the most intelligent 12 year old cannot understand the realities of adult concepts like sexual function. They just can’t.

We need to stop this idea that gender questioning children are this group of super children who “know themselves”. They need the same safeguarding protections around decision making and consent that all children need.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/07/2022 12:07

Yes. We don’t think they can vote.
Drive. Drink. Get married. Not have education. Starve to death.

Or even, in their personal presentation, wear non-uniforms at school.

rogdmum · 13/07/2022 12:35

54isanopendoor · 12/07/2022 11:14

Absolutely what I was told.
Phone call, out of the blue, to say that Dd A had 'disclosed' to School that He wanted to be referred to as Z. Register could be changed, Exam listings could be changed. No consent needed (for a 14 y/o Autistic child with selective mutism) as 'we checked & he is above the age band for needing parental approval'.
South of Scotland area.

Schools can’t change SEEMiS for the under 16s without parental permission, but can make any “informal” changes they like without parental permission or even awareness. In my experience, this meant everything from the register to online systems via a “preferred name” field.

rogdmum · 13/07/2022 12:40

Sorry, should be clear and say, can’t change the formal record on SEEMiS