Daily Mail: Young female detransitioner

[Ravenclawdropout]

Chloe is a young woman testifying in Florida that her breasts were removed when she was 15 and she took "puberty blockers" when she was 13-16.

Do not transition your kids' is message from former trans girl, 17 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001029/Do-not-transition-kids-message-former-trans-girl-17.html?ito=native_share_article-top

I agree.

*I'm not a fucking troll. and troll hunting is banned on MN, as is enciting a pile on, which your post may well do with your complete misrepresentation of me.

I just have a different opinion.

I'm not sure why you've written paragraphs about TRA's when that has nothing to do with anything

"Time and space for children"? When? Where? All I see is denial, mocking and sneering. I certainly don't see that.

Btw I agree about safe spaces. Is that allowed, or with my hairy hands must I stay in the TRA corner?*

Who was “hunting” you? Not me! Just pointed out that you’ve made a number of assertions that clearly paint feminists as “the other side.”

You’ve said, in a number of comments, that this “other side” are to blame for making life too difficult for trans men and trans women, and that this is why they take steps like sourcing puberty blockers and destroying healthy breast tissue.

I pointed out that feminists are not the group pushing a harmful agenda on pre-pubescent children, nor the ones who are advising them, on Reddit and other forums, on how to lie to parents, physicians and/or how to illegally source body-destroying medications.

If you come on to the part of the site which is specifically to discuss these issues from a feminist perspective, and yet describe feminists in terms of showing no empathy, calling them the “other side” etc, then you’re going to get some pushback. Hairy hands or not.

@beautyisthefaceisee

'Truscum' is a slur that gets thrown at people who believe you need some sort of dysphoria to be trans.

I've (hopefully!) attached 3 images that show both sides of the debate.

The original image was widely circulated by the traditional trans camps mocking the 'tucutes' (trans people, mostly girls, who identify as trans but present as the gender that aligns with their sex)

The second 2 images are some of many that were created in opposition to the first and in support of this growing movement of non-gender-non-conforming trans people.

If you're not confused by now, you're doing better than I am!

You will notice that your post has been reported for troll hunting, because it was.

It is the other side, of the debate. What would you like me to refer to it as? Feminists like to refer to people who support trans as TRA's or MRA's which is offensive so to me, the other side is a neutral term.

"I pointed out that feminists are not the group pushing a harmful agenda on pre-pubescent children, nor the ones who are advising them, on Reddit and other forums, on how to lie to parents, physicians and/or how to illegally source body-destroying medications." Agreed, but their views are part of the problem.

"If you come on to the part of the site which is specifically to discuss these issues from a feminist perspective, and yet describe feminists in terms of showing no empathy, calling them the “other side” etc, then you’re going to get some pushback. Hairy hands or not." - you can push back (although I reject the imlication that I don't have any empathy purely because I don't think they are all perfect and their hands are completely clean in a societal problem, and that is perfectly reasonable in a discussion about feminism and women making certain choices), absolutely as is your right. What you can't do is imply I'm a troll and encourage others to ignore me.

Fwiw, was I ever pathetic enough to be a troll, I certainly wou;dn't choose a very emotive, very sad story about a young girl.

I'm so confused!

@beautyisthefaceisee

Yup, me too 😂

I think it's just old fashioned gender non-conformity, rebranded.

People can paint ne out to be dreadful all they like.

But heres the thing. I do have massive sympathy, compassion and read that article feeling really quite sick.

However.
Pointing fingers at the surgeon, mermaids or trans as a concept means nothing.

There are lots of people at fault here. The parents, the therapist,tra's social media feminists for repeating 'we say no ' and nauseam, denying peoples identity and pushing them until they are desperate because they wont listen and understand even if they dont agree, and then are shocked and appalled when people take drastic actions. To me, its akin to people who write stupid things about people on social media then are somewhat shocked and surprised when it affects them.

This is honestly the only topic I've heard of in my life where people refuse to understand that a group can be villain and good in the same debate. Feminists could do more. Government could do more. Joe blogs could do more.

The surgeon is, sadly, not to blame. And its indkckative of how divided this has got that hes taken the full blame here for a legal procedure she requested.

I think there's a lot to blame, the law for one for allowing such surgeries to be allowed at a young age.

Right.. so to check I understand your POV accurately.

A person puts up a post about a young girl who deeply regrets her decision to have life altering surgery at 15 and take growth stunting drugs at 13.

Many posters point out that she cannot possibly have provided consent (that meant anything, anyway) at the ages she did all of this.

Many posters express some sympathy with her and outrage that ANY medical “professional” would go along with the destruction of her breasts, or prescribe a treatment that would stunt her brain’s development, leave her more susceptible to osteoporosis and likely stop her from having meaningful sexual relationships in her adult life.

Many of the posters think that those who encouraged her down this path, and the “professionals” who maimed her, are (or should be) culpable, morally and legally.

Your opposing opinion is, if I have this right, that she made the choices, at 13 and then 15, herself and that she therefore doesn’t have anyone but herself to blame… except maybe the “other side” who have, I infer from your posts, created a hostile environment such that girls like her feel they have no choice but to rush their transition?

An “other side” who largely only show sympathy or empathy with detransitioners, because they’ve realised their mistake and are now back on the “right” side of the debate?

Is that an accurate summation?

If the child couldn't and didn't give consent, the surgeon carried out the operation without consent. Why can't he or she be sued?

Did she or didn't she give consent?

Lots of sympathy in this interview & the comments for yet another person who was cheated of a healthy physical body.

"My Penis Is Gone Forever & I Regret It"

Cheated?

So what would your plan be to help trans children, then? They don't disappear into a puff of smoke because you ban transition

Are you aware that the biggest 'cure' for dysphoria in teens is the very puberty they are trying to fight against. The puberty that matures their body AND their brain. So surely if they were left until they were adults to make these decisions there would be far less actual transexual adults and far less detransitoners?

Are you aware that many of the girls trying to opt out of womanhood have suffered trauma which they think they can escape by dissasociating with their sexed body. They are being told by adults that they are 'trans' and their histories ignored.

Many of the children are just gay.

If being trans was innate, why are the % of the sexes so definitively opposite. The majority of male trans are adults whilst the majority of female trans are teens? Seems odd no? Why are the teens so actively encouraged to get surgery and take drugs whilst the adult males don't?

Social contagion is one of the main causes of the surge in teenage girls. It happened with anorexia but we didn't call those girls fat to ease their dysphoria.

They should hve have to live with the appearance they want (on the outside, obviously) for a number of years. However, we can't do that because of the barriers in their way. If we want people to stop taking such drastic measures, we need to look at our part

No. Stop blaming women who want and need single sex spaces for having perfectly acceptable and legal boundaries. Humans can't change sex. If a male has dysphoria that isn't women's issue. It's their own. Why should we have to pretend someone is the opposite sex? It's not our duty to budge over whilst our rights are being removed to pander to a subset of males who have an issue with their sex.

From the evidence in cases like this, most female detransitoners seem to have grown up and realised they were sold a lie. Not because of them not being accepted.

I also agree with PP that trans now means anything and everything with masculine presenting men claiming to be women and vice versa. It just shows the absurdity of the entire ideology.

The surgeon is, sadly, not to blame. And its indkckative of how divided this has got that hes taken the full blame here for a legal procedure she requested.

Many of these surgeons, I suspect, know full well that this is a social contagion. You’re forgetting that in the US (and here in the private sector) this is a highly lucrative business, with conferences on how to “grow” the sector suggesting ways of increasing patient take up — and many US surgeons coast on building a reputation for giving the patient exactly what they want (and some of the complaints from those whose surgeries go wrong are heartbreaking). There’s a known very high failure and complication rate, and some surgeons run their whole practices specialising in “repairs” to failed gender surgeries.

You don’t think surgeons should bear any responsibility for performing surgeries on under-18s, some of which have complication rates so high they wouldn’t be tolerated in “mainstream” medicine? When they may actively advertise to an under-18 demographic? What about, say, the “yeet the teats” surgeon who writes on her blog about how many mastectomies she’s stuffing into her week, and how much money they are bringing in?

What do you think about “nullification” surgery? Should that be available? To whom? Can “non-binary” teenagers consent to puberty blockers if they are intending to go on to “nullification” surgery?

@beautyisthefaceisee

Absolutely nothing like what I said.

I don't think she can have given informed consent, but that's my opinion. Surgeons don't make ethical decisions, they do their job.

Plastic surgery is a social contagion.

Should Jordan's plastic surgeon be sued on the grounds he is operating on a clearly unwell woman?

Your "yeet the teets" example is an extreme - akin to posters bringing out pictures of 7 foot american 'transwomen'. It's a straw argument.

Removing ALL genitalia is one of the most hideous things I've read yet, of course I don't agree.

"just gay". Wow, just wow. Untrue, but also staggeringly offensive.

I never asked you to give up your single sex spaces. I support you on that.

What I'ma sking you to do is think about the consequences of your words and actions beyond your own opinion. It's all very well being right, but it has consequences. Pretending everyone else is wrong except you is an interesting view.

I don't think she can have given informed consent, but that's my opinion. Surgeons don't make ethical decisions, they do their job.

Wtf? Surgeons make ethical decisions every day, on whether the risks/benefits of a surgery are in the patient’s interests, whether the surgery is medically appropriate, whether it’s cost-effective, what the potential complications are, what the status of informed consent is.

What on earth do you think medical ethics and professional standards are for?

You can’t just dismiss the “yeet the teats” woman as an extreme example: she’s literally the best known surgeon in the US who does it. She’s all over youth social media as a great trans saviour! You sound like you have no idea about this at all tbh. The entire point is that surgeons like this promote the surgery as cool, fast, painless and super-safe, and this gets taken up on thousands of recirculated Tumblr blog posts by teenagers who have little idea if any of what major surgery actually involves.

You can’t exactly claim surgeons are somehow morally above this or professionally neutral, then dismiss obvious examples of ones that aren’t as “extreme”.

And yes, to Katie Price’s surgeon. It’s unethical. Why do you think she doesn’t get those surgeries done here where professional standards and regulation are much higher?

We all know plastic surgeons in the US do things that would be considered highly unethical here (extensive lipo on sixteen year olds, plastic surgeries in circumstances that would be frowned on in this country) and it’s considered a business. Why do you think gender surgeries are any different? (And FWIW, breast implants even if done on teenagers are a much less major or risky surgery than mastectomy, which is a huge, irreversible procedure. You can mostly have implants taken out again, whereas no-one can regrow their natural breasts.)

Feminists could do more

Feminists are fighting for the rights of FEMALES, not males who wish they were. Clue is in the name.

It isn't feminists pushing the narrative that any non conformity to sex role stereotypes means you need 'fixing' with drugs and surgery.

But so often we're told that if we don't support our daughters 100% in becoming our "sons", they will kill themselves.

By themselves? you think the only person who dropped the ball in this scenari was the surgeon?

I love that this is all 'our' fault when we have been trying to scream into a void about how fucking unethical and dangerous it is and how it cannot be consented to at that age.

But apart from that we should have just let girls be boyish and it would all have been fine.

It's literally what we have been doing for years.

It was disgusting when women pointed it out years ago, it is disgusting now and as all these detransitioners realise how horrendously they have been treated and operated on, it will no doubt be women who come along and put these young people back together again as best they can whilst takng all the blame for it.

I hope they sue each and every person that removed healthy body parts of each and every young de-transitioner and I hope it puts them all out of business for ever. They are utter scum.