Daily Mail: Young female detransitioner

[Ravenclawdropout]

Chloe is a young woman testifying in Florida that her breasts were removed when she was 15 and she took "puberty blockers" when she was 13-16.

Do not transition your kids' is message from former trans girl, 17 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001029/Do-not-transition-kids-message-former-trans-girl-17.html?ito=native_share_article-top

So the parents are blameless, are they?

You cannot be serious.

What about transmen? By your logic, they're women.

@Whatsnewpussyhat and no, but they are the ones mocking, degrading and outright denying trans people, which pushes them to drastic measures.

It’s just exactly the same basic sexism as when people say transwomen are at risk of terrible violence eg being beaten up by other males, and then all the blame is directed at “feminists” and “terfs”. Well, we’re not the people who are supposedly doing all the violence!

This :
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they are the ones mocking, degrading and outright denying trans people, which pushes them to drastic measures

— this is pure projection of the same kind. Feminists express impassioned arguments about the ethics of transition on internet fora. We aren’t “mocking and degrading” trans people and “pushing them to drastic measures”. They’re doing that all by themselves, as the cartoons posted upthread show!

One moment you say that it’s just their own personal decision and not even the surgeon can be blamed. The next moment somehow feminists are somehow to be blamed! You couldn’t make this up - this kind of sexist projector of all issues onto the very women who are raising the alarm, as AlisonDonut says.

Of all the people involved in this poor girls mistreatment i think that the parents shoulder the majority of the blame. Surgeons especially in the US are working to the guidelines they are issued which are inconsistent and driven by risk of being sued so often heavily influenced by insurance agencies rather than medical professionals.

As parents of us our responsibility to make decisions for our children and to act in their best interests even when they disagree.

It is our responsibility to be aware of what they are being exposed to on social media and the internet and to to either restrict it or address it by providing alternative view points and additional information.

It is our responsibility to stand up for our children and to protect them.

DH is not GC, he is very much an ally and disagrees completely with my GC viewpoints. He is of the TWAW and Be Kind leaning. We have had many heated debates and will continue to do so I'm sure. I've made it abundantly bloody clear that I have veto when it comes to issues affecting women or related to the development of a girl into a woman and the kind of experiences involved in that as I have done it he has just observed it. That we can discuss our approach, debate our decisions but that ultimately my stance is that if at any point DD says she wants to be a boy we will do whatever we have to do to find a good counsellor who's a good fit, she can wear what she wants but there will be no puberty blockers, hormone therapy or surgery, also no breast binders.

She's been talking a lot about puberty recently after watching an operation ouch special and was telling me how unfair it is that girls have to get boobs. We've talked about it a fair bit and about how bodies aren't fair or unfair, they just are what they are, they serve a purpose and every part of our bodies is what it is supposed to be. That she might have small, medium or big boobs we have no way of knowing yet but that whatever she ends up with will be right for her and she can choose different kinds of tops and bras that she likes when the time comes.

So you think it's OK for surgeons to carry out cosmetic procedures on children without informed consent, and the children should have no right to sue them later?

What do you think the job of a surgeon entails? Do you think they can or should do whatever a patient wants, regardless of whether the patient is able to give informed consent? And regardless of whether the surgery is in the best interests of the patient?

What about a child who said they wanted their healthy legs amputated? If a surgeon did this, do you think the child would be able to sue them later?

Can 15 year olds legally consent to breast removal?

Glad to read these recent comments having read this thread which is full of incoherent, sexist, women / feminist blaming. Unbelievable.

As women we can have a very conflicted relationship with ourselves and our bodies, and its females that are much more likely to have Eating Disorders, want plastic surgery, skin treatments etc. etc.
We know we live in a modern world that objectifies and highly sexualizes us, especially as teens and young women. Many of us took years and the development of mental maturity and critical thinking to be truly comfortable with who we are and see our bodies and wonderful, capable and strong. Also to recognize how society and media impacts our sense of self.
I didn't hate my body but I was certainly very ignorant of my own biology, despite being very headstrong and streetwise.

Having a baby was mind blowing for me and I really was stunned and amazed at what my body had just done in growing an entire other person. Likewise with breastfeeding which I literally knew ZERO about until I was pregnant. Breastfeeding my 3 kids was one of the most meaningful and beautiful experiences of my life.

BTW in Grad school as part of my studies I took a required personality test. Two professors sat with me to explain my results. They said my profile was very unusual and was usually only seen in men. I have always been very clearly female and naturally "feminine" I suppose. But my antics as a teen who was completely independent as a 16 yr old due to parental bereavement and mental illness would've probably persuaded me (or others) that I was "really" A MAN if I was growing up now.

I am so concerned about vulnerable girls like I was. I notice a high rate of current female transitioners have experienced the death of a parent and/or foster care = me.

At the most vulnerable time of their lives, when girls are still developing and have little sense of who they are, what they want to be and their sexuality, it should be COMPLETELY ILLEGAL to mess with their physical makeup via hormones and remove essential body parts. This is definitely a hill I am willing to die on. And frankly it's extremely crowded up here.

@beautyisthefaceisee you claim to work with teens ... I hope you're not a teacher as your ramblings are utterly incoherent 😂 I've read the whole thread and was pretty sure @PaterPower's summation of your views was pretty accurate, but then you said no! 😂 Deary me!

Presumably, sue for carrying out an unnecessary medical procedure on her healthy body without her fully informed legal consent given that she was a minor?

Hang on a minute, when parents have said no, some of them have actually had access to their kids blocked.

Teachers are transing kids behind the parents backs and the kids are being groomed into what to say if their parents say no.

None of this would even be an issue if doctors were not prescribing blockers and surgeons were not removing healthy body parts.

It is like something out of a dystopian David Cronenberg film, happening in real time.

What about transmen? By your logic, they're women

By what logic are they men?

They are female and are thus covered by women's sex based rights and protections regardless of any 'gender identity' or pronouns.

If a young woman has a boob job and regrets it, whos fault is it? The man who performed the surgery?

if she was 15 when he or she performed a breast augmentation, then yes I think it is the surgeon's fault. So does the FDA

"The FDA has not approved breast augmentation in patients younger than 18 for the following reasons: Teens and their parents may not realise the risks associated with breast implants. The teen's body may not have finished developing. The teen needs to be psychologically ready to handle the outcome of surgery."

Sue for what?carrying out a legal medical process with her consent?

I guess we'll see, won't we?

As will the doctors, surgeons, therapists, clinics, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and insurers. And the lawyers, never forget the lawyers. And the politicians. Goodness, have I forgotten anyone?

Oh yeah, the kids.

Of course they are. Woman is just a biological category

It’s 18 in Florida.

and the legal age for drinking is 21.

In the US, it’s often older than the UK on these two things.

For most purposes, a child of 13 is not deemed capable of giving consent. Even at 16, there's not much you can do without permission from your parents.

If a surgeon performed a breast enlargement upon a child then yes they should be struck off.

"The FDA has not approved breast augmentation in patients younger than 18 for the following reasons: Teens and their parents may not realise the risks associated with breast implants. The teen's body may not have finished developing. The teen needs to be psychologically ready to handle the outcome of surgery."

I posted this upthread but I thought it worth repeating. The FDA will not allow a surgeon to perform breast augmentation on a 15 year old for these pretty cogent reasons - all of which apply to a 15 year old wanting a double mastectomy.

the only way this madness will end is doctors being sued for what they've done to children.

@Pallisers your post seems the most specific and relevant to unnecessary surgery on healthy teen bodies. Its so insane that the FDA bans breast augmentation, while ignoring all these under 18s being operated on before they have even had time to grow into and understand their bodies.

FrancescaContini · Yesterday 16:25
How any parent could administer testosterone injections to a 13 year old girl, and how any surgeon could perform a double mastectomy on a 15 year old girl for a non-medical purpose beggars belief.

It is a burgeoning and booming multi billion dollar business.
The more transitioners it can create the better, as they will be life long buyers of pharmaceuticals and use expensive surgeries.

It is also better to hook them in young, before they have a chance to grow up and reassess their dysphoria.

Indeed. The insanity and double standards applied when it comes to trans issues is shocking.

The Guardian is currently leading with a shock revelation about how Uber managed to manipulate key decision-makers behind the scenes and without any transparency. I suspect that that will be nothing compared to when the Stonewall exposé finally comes to light.(And it will, eventually...)

Though it's unlikely to be the Guardian who breaks the story.

DdraigGoch
For most purposes, a child of 13 is not deemed capable of giving consent. Even at 16, there's not much you can do without permission from your parents.

I thought a court judgement not long ago, related to the outcome of the Bell case, reintroduced the idea of Gillick Competency?