Is CIS a legal term?

[purpleboy]

So I had a conversation with a friend the other day who is adamant Cis is an accurate descriptor of women and that it is written into law?
I asked where but she couldn't specify just stating it's a factual term (referencing women) that is legally recognized.
I've had a look and can't seem to find anything to back this up, but I know the wise women here will know if there is any truth to this.
Thanks in advance.

My transman friend is upset by the fact that people say things that eradicate his identity

If your friend is upset and feels 'eradicated' because people say no to your friend applying to them words, concepts and politics they don't choose and disagree with? And that your friend's identity can only exist if others enable and comply with your friend in the way your friend wishes?

Your friend is upset by a failure to control other people. The negative behaviour is not on the side of the people saying no. The only person your friend is entitled to control and choose words and labels and concepts for is themselves. Their power ends there.

The emotional coercion of all this is really quite plain. The answer is no.

We don't deny their identities

It's just that woman actually isn't an identity it's just a statement of fact

Adult human female

And it's a useful statement of fact because it enables us to better look after the health of the whole population, to identify who is likely to be discriminated against and why

identity all you like but identity doesn't make you anything

Your identity is about your own internal view of yourself , you can't force the world to accept it

You can't identify as. Nurse - you need the training and external validated proof

I'm an atheist, but I don't insist on belittling others.

Why are you mentioning trans activitists? They're irrelevant here.

Yes, you do. with the "humans cant change sex" debacle what you are effectively saying is trans isn't a thing, and you know it.

*Feminists literally deny the identity of trans people.

So excuse me if I'm not up in arms about them being offended by cisgender.

re your second point, I agree.

I think if we could agree a climb down on the conflation of sex/gender, protect some single sex spaces and let everybody choose their own descriptors and whether they wanted to stipulate pronouns or not, a lot if the rest would calm down.

I don’t remember anybody feeling the need to comment on whether sex changes were literal transubstantiation until the selfID band-wagon got rolling. Feminists are going back to asserting basic principles as a defence against the madness.

You dont know my friend, so please stop being so bloody rude.

He doesnt want to control anyone.

I just think there but for the grace of god that you and I dont have to deal with the pain that goes on inside him.

Cool. I can call you all cisgender then, right? You can't tell me not to.

Do you really not see this?

genuinely interesting point re self ID>

@beautyisthefaceisee as an atheist presumably you think it's reasonable to discuss on an atheist or humanist discussion forum things like whether church schools should be allowed, or whether there should be bishops in the House of Lords, or whether there should be a state religion that the monarch is the head of. Do you think that discussing those things is hurtful to those with a religious belief? That it literally eradicates their identity when atheists say there is no god or gods?

@beautyisthefaceisee I’m sure your friend is lovely. Can you explain what you mean by “eradicating his identity”?

No humans can't change sex

Trans isn't about changing sex it's about having an internal image of yourself that means you think you should be the other sex. That internal image is what gender identity seems to be

No matter what you do no one will ever actually be the other sex

At least one transman has died by refusing to accept This reality

Note to self

Don't argue with stupid people or flat earthers

I don’t think @beautyisthefaceisee is at all stupid. I think she’s a good faith proponent of her position.

Are you transgender? No? Then you're cisgender. There's nothing offensive about it.

No. It's redundant outside your ideological belief system. If it just meant "non-trans" then "trans" as an adjective would modify the word "woman" which means adult human female, to be an adult human female who identifies as the opposite sex, ie a "trans man". But it doesn't just mean non-trans, does it.

No, because that is discussion within the topic. That is the same as discussions on safe spaces and prisons etc, which I'm on board with.

I don't believe there is a god. I fully accept that others do.

Equivlent

I'm not trans. I fully accept that others are.

The literal equivalent would be me saying "there is no such thing as Christians".

beautyisthefaceisee

My transman friend is upset by the fact that people say things that eradicate his identity and frankly make him feel shit about himself. Why? He's a good person and doesn't deserve that.

Is your friend upset that people accept that he is a transman or that people don't accept that he is a man?

You have no idea who you're talking to here or what they live with. Being TQ+ is not the automatic trump card you seem to think it is. You say your friend feels 'eradicated' if people refuse to join in with the ideology, say the words, accept the labels? Yes, they are upset about not being able to control others to create the environment they wish to live in. Other people are not props. Telling people how sad it makes your friend when they won't co operate with things they find offensive, do not agree with, don't want to participate in? Yes, that's coercively controlling. 'Be kind' and talk about sad friends in extreme pain is coercively controlling to try and get them to do what you want against their will. You know this.

You can call people whatever you want. The point is that you cannot make them care, or agree, or co operate.

He's fine wiht transman, he's a pretty reasonable individual. But the comments of "woo woo" and all the rest of it, the daily dismissal and mocking that goes on, would be hurtful to him because it is dismissing something he feels very strongly.

If anyone thinks he's dim enough to believe he literally can change sex - well, thats on them.

Cool. I can call you all cisgender then, right? You can't tell me not to.

You can, yes. We all have freedom of speech, however rude and offensive. But it's meaningless and inaccurate for people who don't share a belief in gender identity ideology.

I don't believe in trump cards, it's not a game.

no, I dont "Know this", as I completely and utterly disagree, and I'm not going to engage further as I find this entire post totally fucking offensive and nasty.

Of course trans is a thing. But when you transition, you don't change sex. You are undergoing social and/or elective surgical changes to feel more comfortable with yourself. But you don't change sex. And single sex spaces are still needed and if you aren't prepared to accept that, you are creating a problem for yourself.
Stamping your feet or shouting that I am denying your existence won't change that.

Thanks. I've taken a lot from the discussion, even posters I don't necessarily agree with its food for thought. Signing off just now though, i'm really pissed off at Artichoke's post and I don't want to take the bait and find myself suspended.

Have a good evening!

The literal equivalent would be me saying "there is no such thing as Christians".

No it isn't. It's exactly the right analogy, because we accept that there are people who consider themselves trans and believe certain things whether we agree or not. Same with Christians. If you don't believe in god, it's just something that other people believe, and I'm happy to respect that people have different beliefs right up to the point that their beliefs are prioritised over my rights.

So as a Christian can I demand everybody that the bread and wine truly be one the body and blood of Christ, and call them names and threaten them I’d they refuse to believe this? Can I demand anybody who does not believe Jesus existed should be sacked? Can I compel everyone to come to church every Sunday? If not why not? Why should I be compelled to believe in gender if I can’t compel everyone to accept my religion?

Trans people are ill served by people telling them that to defend single sex spaces = genocide

Trans people are ill served by the whole TRA agenda it would seem. Somewhat ironic.