And this is exactly why Posie Parker is a liability

[MerchedBeca]

Yes, she's charismatic, has style and says things out loud we all wish we'd had the ovaries to say.

But sometimes, the shit she says is fucking dangerous. HOW can she say she's standing for women's rights and then blithely say that our access to abortion is a price worth paying? WTFucking hell?

This isn't about elites, or head girls or any of that shit that Posie chucks at women who disagree with her. We're seeing the biggest pushback on women's rights since before women's lib, we need to build a grass roots movement to fight this, urgently, and Posie's tactics are harming us.

So, this morning someone called Billy Bragg out on his stance on women's rights, and he came back directly with a screenshot of Posie taking shit about Roe vs Wade.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently. I know she says she's not a feminist but that detail is lost our detractors. She's a gift to those who want to paint us all as ultra right wing bigots, and this matters.

@LadyAnnabelsTapestries that's right. They also allow non MNers to report posts.

And they have additional rules specifically for this forum, see the sticky thread that isn't actually all that comprehensive. This is the most watched and most strictly monitored part of MN. We are not ever speaking freely.

I mean those of us who try to say exactly what we mean. You must have noticed the stilted language?! That's not by choice either. That's to avoid being given a strike and/or being suspended and banned.

We are allowed to say fuck. But if we say that specific men are male we get zapped. Go figure!

Yes, this. What we need is a broad coalition of women and the men that think women are equal human beings across the political spectrum.

Both right and left have abandoned women and children and are all about men's rights whether it's men in dresses or billionaire men or religious men.

I don't care what the left wing think. I've voted Labour most of my life but I won't as long as they deny basic scientific fact and throw women to the wolves (both collectively and individually - Rosie Duffield for example). I don't care if they think I'm a bigot - have at it. I know they want to label me and take my rights away, and reduce me to body parts. They're as bad as the religious nuts on the right. What we need is the middle ground of normal, sensible people who know what biology and reality is.

Again. Please read my posts about why this won't happen and why we are shunted off to this one fora in the first place.

The name, the split of the boards, the additional policing, the forced language, the external monitoring, the moving of threads from Chat, AIBU etc to here, is all very much against the wishes of the women who have posted here for years.

If you don't like it you aren't alone. But this is what MNHQ says we are allowed.

Oh. And calling it Gender Discussion would be akin to calling it Trans Issues.

We discuss women's rights and sex based discrimination.

We had that argument already and this was as far as MNHQ would move.

If I get you right, you're saying MN mods are not allowing GC threads or topics outside of FWR?
That's not right, there's regularly "GC" threads in AIBU and Chat.

Your use of the word 'we' seems to be confusing you OP.

Who is this 'we'?

There are people who are regard themselves as feminist and are against the TRA movement because it harms women and children.

There are people who call themselves feminists and who support TWAW and affirmative gender care for children.

There are people who are right wing who are against the TRA movement because they think it harms women and children. But they probably wouldn't call themselves feminists.

There are people who see free access to unrestricted abortion as purely a women's rights issue. They are likely to call themselves feminists but might be for or against the TRA agenda.

There are people who would argue for restrictions on abortion but who are against the TRA agenda and who view themselves as pro women.

So who is this 'we' you think you are talking to? And what should they do about the fact there are some people like PP they agree and disagree with?

You and Billy Bragg seem to fall into the same trap: believing that people separate neatly into identity groups of right think and wrong think.

Yes Janet and as you full well know having been on a few, they get moved here as soon as someone reports them

Not always, some still stand.

This seems like a good reason to have the board outside the feminsm section, being gender critical has moved on a lot in the last 12 months.

Janet you mean some escape notice. Don't be so disingenuous, you know how it happens. Pretending otherwise isn't helpful to anyone.

Yes, the board could be called, 'Completely Mainstream Views About Women'.

Ooh! Shall we petition the Mods with that? Don't think it came up last time 👍

This whole thread has strong dejavu vibes about it. I'm fairly sure we've already done this 'discussion', even with the same decontextualised screenshot now regurgitated by Bragg.

🤷🏻‍♀️

As a left leaning, now politically homeless female voter, I think it's worth giving a shout out to the right wing women doing a sterling job of holding Tory candidates seeking to become Tory leader/PM to account on where they stand on women's rights, while bringing the receipts to highlight when those prospective candidates are being a tad economical with the truth <Penny Mordaunt, anyone?>

I may strongly disagree with right wing women & their politics generally, but the way that every Tory throwing their hat in the ring is having to come up with something convincing on this issue, shows the work put in by those women is having an impact.

Meanwhile, here's Keir Starmer pretending to listen to serious expert women asking serious questions about his position on women's rights, to then ignore the follow up email completely.

Link to tweet

"As a reminder @Keir_Starmer, here I am telling you about a meeting of Labour women being attacked by smoke bombs. I wrote to you 2 days later and have had no reply. That was 7 weeks ago. Do you care about misogyny in the party? You have a strange way of showing it."

Shall I start a thread (with receipts) on all the women who 'align' themselves with patronising misogynistic gas lighters, & flag up the harms arrogant silencing of women will cause every issue women & girls face? Or shall I just accept we're all doing our bit, big & small, differently, and not try to endlessly smear women for the efforts they're putting in, irrespective of the value (or lack of it) of outcome? Or just continue to do my thing & let others do their thing, and who know where that might lead?

For those who still don't get it. Women are sick & tired of being lectured at. To be assumed thick, or deficient, or under educated for not joining in the 'mean girls' monstering of a woman who does a lot, at significant personal cost, whose every utterance isn't being endorsed because we won't hound her in the manner demanded.

Those who dislike PP, who feel compromised by her existence & who feel embarrassed by her actions (even if those actions create widespread media interest & awareness of the threat women face & those embarrassed are not that embarrassed to not jump on the wave of exposure without even acknowledging PP's involvement) - carry on hating, tutting, finger wagging & generally sneering at whatever she's doing that you disapprove of. Maybe try doing it without the urge to repeat the lectures & appeals to guilt by association. Cos we all pretty sick of it by now.

I haven’t name changed

LadyAnnabelsTapestries

I have no issues with PP's or anyone else's 'purity'.

What I do have is a lot of knowledge about the US right-wing Christian groups that she is building alliances with, and their deeply regressive, homophobic, racist, misogynist agendas. The influence is only going one way.

Yes, PP has developed her own views although with a (self-professed) lack of awareness of the broader political aims of the groups she is allying with. I get that she's a 'single-issue campaigner' and that's her right to be.

My point is that the groups that she is helping to build up are very much not single-issue - they're well-funded and gaining in power and influence and are very happy to play the long game (which they're winning at the moment).

The above post is the type of sneering and contempt for other women that professional lefty feminists and ilk like Bragg specialise in. I am not American. I live in an Asian country where abortion rights are a settled issue and couldn't give a fuck about Roe V Wade while I was very involved in the Irish battle for abortion rights following the horrendous Savita Halappanar case and have been concerned for decades about the lack of abortion rights in countries like the Phillipines and Laos. I am very global south in my concerns because I live in Asia, in close proximity to millions of much poorer women. I am aware of US evangelical groups and their funding of anti-abortion causes in the poorer parts of the world. US governmental aid however is tied to the ruling party's ideology and thus far is not a significant player in abortion access in the developing world. I particularly despise the US culture wars, the cultural parochialism of US feminists and will not bend my knee to your toxic demands. My history is not yours, my battles are not yours so do fuck off. I am on mumsnet because I absolutely respect and admire British terfdom and that includes the absolute boss that is Posie Parker.

"Christo-fascism" is a funny term to use when many of those using it cringe at "Islamofascism". On any objective measure, the latter does more harm to more women and girls but why is one term acceptable but the other not? I am an atheist btw and willing to use both terms. Are you?

@GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder Stands up to clap.

What I do have is a lot of knowledge about the US right-wing Christian groups that she is building alliances with, and their deeply regressive, homophobic, racist, misogynist agendas. The influence is only going one way.

Not👏our👏problem👏

trentpercent if only it wasn't.

What I do have is a lot of knowledge about the US right-wing Christian groups that she is building alliances with, and their deeply regressive, homophobic, racist, misogynist agendas. The influence is only going one way.

I notice these types of responses always contain these angry blanket slurs. It's always the usual ones: racist, homophobic, misogynist....

Of course every single person on the right is like this. There are no black christian right wingers, no gay right wingers, and all of them are misogynists especially the women, handmaidens all and yet, they are supposedly 'winning'. But how? Surely tens of millions of people can see that they're simply racist and homophobic and misogynists. No? Why? oh yes, they can't think for themselves. I get it now.

That's why it's so dangerous to even engage with them. It's like an illness, it's catching. Posie Parker might catch it and then become a crazy, christian, misogynistic, racist, homophobe too. Someone should warn her.

We should just ignore all these millions of people or wish them away, or stamp them out. Yes stamp them out of existence. Get angry. Don't engage they're just an a huge monolithic collective identity. A big racist, homophobic etc etc one.

Alright then. I'm onboard with the messaging.

That's the point. Of course not everyone on the right is racist, homophobic and misogynist.

The point is that the groups that PP and others are 'building alliances' with are.

If the “left wing” needs convincing that women deserve sex based rights including the right to the word woman then perhaps the problem is with the left wing and not Posie Parker.

They're not slurs. They're fact.

Have a look at for example the leadership team of the Heritage Foundation and say that that's screaming 'we have the interests of women in mind'.

I don't care if they think I'm a bigot - have at it. I know they want to label me and take my rights away, and reduce me to body parts. They're as bad as the religious nuts on the right. What we need is the middle ground of normal, sensible people who know what biology and reality is.

After being left wing all my life, I have come to the conclusion that they are worse for women's rights. Hear me out. The religious right are a known quantity, they have always been the "enemy" - feminism has developed the tools to fight beardy religious patriachs - be they xtian, muslim or Hindu- and has to a great extent succeeded over the last 100 years, all over the globe. The left's enthusiasm for gender woo however has left me gobsmacked. They kicked out and no-platformed critical women and for a few short years, left us grappling without the tools to fight back. I cannot easily forget that. If women like Posie Parker did not utilise RW media platforms, or Julie Bindel and Dr Stock refused centre right platforms like Unherd, where would the GC fight back be? Begging the Billy Braggs for their scraps of approval?