And this is exactly why Posie Parker is a liability

[MerchedBeca]

Yes, she's charismatic, has style and says things out loud we all wish we'd had the ovaries to say.

But sometimes, the shit she says is fucking dangerous. HOW can she say she's standing for women's rights and then blithely say that our access to abortion is a price worth paying? WTFucking hell?

This isn't about elites, or head girls or any of that shit that Posie chucks at women who disagree with her. We're seeing the biggest pushback on women's rights since before women's lib, we need to build a grass roots movement to fight this, urgently, and Posie's tactics are harming us.

So, this morning someone called Billy Bragg out on his stance on women's rights, and he came back directly with a screenshot of Posie taking shit about Roe vs Wade.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently. I know she says she's not a feminist but that detail is lost our detractors. She's a gift to those who want to paint us all as ultra right wing bigots, and this matters.

I think that's a great suggestion, perhaps other women on MN who don't come to the FWR would get involved in the discussion too.

Yes it is, as it makes it painfully clear that this isn't a board for feminism anymore and we have posters openly admitting they're not feminists.

well there’s only me so no pile on for a start.
Plus I am stating an opinion that while she does mostly good I think she can be a bit self absorbed as well based purely on other things I have seen on SM.
Perhaps that’s why she’s so effective? She has faults as we all do but apparently it’s not on to point them out.
I though we were FOR free speech, I didnt think that it was the GC Feminists that were of the “worship completely or shut up” school of thought

Yeah. That's where the world was about 5 years ago - delicate and being nice.

Right now governments, organisations, law courts are making decisions that would take decades to turn back. And that's over and above the seemingly accepted "transwomen must be allowed in all femal spaces" that has occurred openly in the last 2 years.

At some point you'll be grateful to gobby women like KJK, women on FWR and all those who have stood up and made a stand.

Their awareness and vigilance is all that is currently saving the concept of woman from being buried in gender woo!

Well, your statement that you're a woman doesn't give me a clue if you're male or female, just that 'identity' as one. And I don't care how you identify, whereas whether you're male or female is a much more pertinent information when, for example, discussing abortion.

Because male 'women' will never have it affect them, so it might be nice to know who it will affect without references to body parts.

Be fair. She's always been very sticky 😉

Well, your statement that you're a woman doesn't give me a clue if you're male or female, just that 'identity' as one.
Well seeing as I said "trans people existing doesn't make me less of one" it's pretty clear that I'm not trans.

@LLadyAnnabelsTapestries that won't happen. Remember we have been placed here, on the naughty step, against our will and all similar threads on other fora get reported and shunted here.

We do not speak here freely or out of choice, often.

It helps to remember that when you start to feel that 'feminism' isn't for you. We have been corralled here, labelled against our wishes. We have no control and stay visible only because we carefully edit ourselves before posting.

Since India Willoughby insists that they are 'cis' these days that means bugger all. Words have lost any comprehensible meaning.

Competent adults are usually able to cope with others having some opinions they agree with and other opinions they don't without having to split up into factions and rival gangs. This isn't West Side Story. Women's rights are a battle with a whole lot of people involved, and is more important than party politics.

Lol, you think I don't understand the concept of US federalism? Are you even American??? You do understand who won the US civil war, right? You do understand the civil war amendments to the US constitution, right? NO STATE can deny a citizen basic human rights. States do not have the power to deny a woman access to a safe abortion. The fact that some liberals think a more straightforward constitutional arguement could have been made for abortion rights does not mean states can ban abortion. What that means is Congress should have added extra protection by codifying Roe at the federal level.

This "it's up to the states" nonsense is Jim Crow racism and it goes hand in hand with christian based misogyny. If you're not American, I understand how you might be confused. If you are American, I'm sorry that you were deprived of your right to an education.

Some of us never considered ourselves feminist as we didn't know much about it, however, all women advocating for women to retain their single sex provision, are feminist even if they do not think they are. Those that advocate for Males to be included (and therefore excluding some females) in Female single sex provisions are........not.

Oh so you don't actually agree that TWAW then?

When did she say that was her job? Role? Profession? Assignment? Project? Venture? I've run out of words.

I love it when new posters come on with their big shitty stirry sticks.

yawn

Great, glad you feel the situation where I have to analyze your further utterances to work out if you're male or female is acceptable to you.

I'm a woman, and in my worldview that excludes males, as women are female. So existence of people who believe what they like doesn't affect me, until it does - if males can be in my hospital ward or changing room because they believe they're 'women', to me that's unacceptable.

Caring what anyone on the left thinks about the way a woman campaigns for women's rights would be like me giving a shit what my abusive ex husband thought of me. I give zero fucks.

Billy Bragg, like many brocialists, is a woman hating cunt, so I don't care what he thinks either.

KJK is very pro choice, she has addressed this and the accusations against her on her YouTube channel. MangyInseam is correct about about KJK's point of view on this. Incidentally she was a life long Labour voter until they decided to shit on women and then doubled down and refused to listen to us. I'm not inclined to go to them with my begging bowl either.

Wooden spoon award of the day goes to OP.

Too many people on here think Twitter and people like Billy Bragg matter. Noone I know personally is on Twitter, and the Zoomers I know defintely aren't. Most people still don't have much of a clue who Kellie-Jay Keen is either, but they DO know what a woman is, and most ARE NOT buying the trans narrative.
The majority of people on Twitter seem to have already made up their minds politically. The strength of KJK is she takes it off social media and into the Public Square, showing the ugliness and violence of TRAs in the process.

@Hoppinggreen I think she can be a bit self absorbed as well based purely on other things I have seen on SM.
Perhaps that’s why she’s so effective?

Ok, If you mean, self-assured, extremely confident to the point of being annoying at times, bombastic, occasionally wrapped up in her own opinion and stubbornly sticking to it despite all attempts to dissuade, then I would agree somewhat. Being immovable, having extremely strong conviction is a requirement of anyone seeking to really challenge this ideology in a prominent way. It will always be occasionally irritating.

Her 'I never lose' is an example of this sometimes obnoxiously seeming levels of supreme confidence or bolshyness.

She certainly needs it. It might rub you up the wrong way - it does me too at times - but I wouldn't do what she's doing. I'm not that woman. She's doing it instead. I feel for her, it's a massive burden as well as a rewarding task. It has obviously greatly intruded into her family life. She has the personality required. I don't have to agree with everything she says to appreciate that. She has my respect even if she doesn't always have my agreement.

Women like this need our encouragement to keep doing what they are doing. So they have a sense that their self-sacrifice is not in vain. Criticism ought to be justified, not based on innuendo that people can't be half-arsed to find and social media posts that are not complete, because they are already getting vicious backlash from those opposed to them.

OP, you say 'We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently'

People will hear what they want to hear. Plenty of GC women in this country are firmly of the left: Julie Bindel, Kiri Trunks etc.

Attempts to persuade the 'left wing' are entirely futile, as they demand complete compliance with ALL the 'correct' opinions, including that Tory party are some sort of fascists, and they can piss off with their purity spirals. Women's rights don't belong to the left, or to feminists, they belong to all women.

Posie is her own woman and is brave enough to stand for her beliefs. I admire her enormously. For some 8 must spell out that it doesn't mean I have to agree with every single point. I still remember the days when this was the status quo.

I see. Why is MN moderation taking such a strict stance? I don't understand.

If I get you right, you're saying MN mods are not allowing GC threads or topics outside of FWR?

‘Well seeing as I said "trans people existing doesn't make me less of one" it's pretty clear that I'm not trans.’

If you are female and not a child, nothing can make you less of a woman. But we are not the ones insisting otherwise.

That's me, I'm with Posie all the way and am also not a feminst. Perhaps it would be helpful if @mnhq renamed this board simply 'gender discussion" and moved it out of the Feminism section, then we wouldn't have to keep going through this rigmarole.

I think that's a great suggestion, perhaps other women on MN who don't come to the FWR would get involved in the discussion too.

Put me down as another one who thinks this would be a good idea.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing
I actually agree with that bit, or at least that will never convince those despotic, footstamping men-children who have colonised the left. But the answer is not to try ever harder to placate them but to stop caring what they think. Most people out in the world don't care, and think that at some point, the Labour Party will stop caring too although sadly, I can't see this happening before the next general election.