And this is exactly why Posie Parker is a liability

[MerchedBeca]

Yes, she's charismatic, has style and says things out loud we all wish we'd had the ovaries to say.

But sometimes, the shit she says is fucking dangerous. HOW can she say she's standing for women's rights and then blithely say that our access to abortion is a price worth paying? WTFucking hell?

This isn't about elites, or head girls or any of that shit that Posie chucks at women who disagree with her. We're seeing the biggest pushback on women's rights since before women's lib, we need to build a grass roots movement to fight this, urgently, and Posie's tactics are harming us.

So, this morning someone called Billy Bragg out on his stance on women's rights, and he came back directly with a screenshot of Posie taking shit about Roe vs Wade.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently. I know she says she's not a feminist but that detail is lost our detractors. She's a gift to those who want to paint us all as ultra right wing bigots, and this matters.

Oh yes! I'd forgotten. But they can't overturn any primary legislation

If the US is so powerful, why don't we have aligned gun laws? Capital punishment?

The only legal change that's being pushed on the U.K. is by men who are lobbying to have the surrogacy laws changed to allow commercial surrogacy. There is no lobbying to reverse abortion laws.

The US is so powerful that any major legislative and ideological change there spreads across the world (see gender ideology for an example).

What a load of hyperbolic bollocks.

Is it? Gender ideology took hold in US academia and the rest is history, as they say.

we also have the nhs too though.

This is a fact: Or the mission statement of the ADF 'guaranteeing the right to life from conception to natural death' @christinarossetti39

Them therefore being misogynists is your opinion.

Your inability to distinguish between fact and opinion undermines everything you say.

I do think that any mission statement 'guaranteeing the right to life from conception...' thus positioning itself against abortion is fundamentally misogynistic.

If you think women not having autonomy and choice over their reproductive health is something else, fill your boots MalagaNights.

It is true that roe Vs Wade has put abortion on the agenda for debate generally across the West, but in the UK there are no indications of any intention to alter existing law.

I think many women however object to there even being a debate around abortion limits and declare #nodebate, claim there are no competing rights and anyone who thinks there must be is a misogynist.

It should be clear by now this is not a good strategy. You can't suppress debate, you have to win the debate.

The US is so powerful that any major legislative and ideological change there spreads across the world (see gender ideology for an example).

See also CRT.

So win the debate about how campaigning for 'guaranteeing the right to life from conception...' isn't utterly anti-woman and misogynistic then, MalagaNights.

What would be your opening statement?

I know you think that @christinarossetti39 that is your opinion.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you don't own the facts.

Do you really not understand the difference?

The fact is that one of the mission statements of ADF is 'guaranteeing the right to life from conception...'.

That's not my opinion - look it up. It's there for you on their website.

My opinion is that that is fundamentally misogynistic and anti-women.

Prove me wrong.

No thank you.

I'm not inclined to have that debate just now on this thread.

I'm content with just stating my opinion that there is a debate, even though you don't want there to be, as people disagree and that's the only way to resolve it.

I don't give a damn what Billy Bragg, misogynist, thinks about women fighting for our rights. And what he's posted isn't evidence of PP doing anything without context.

She's brought a lot of attention to this issue. Like it or not, she's breaking through in ways that certain professional feminists envy. They call her names too. Like 'breeder'. FFS.

KJK / PP has bucket loads of courage and has achieved a lot. This thread is nasty shit stirring.

I agree with you.
That is what I was saying.
One is fact.
The other is your opinion.

I'm very happy for there to be debate MalagaNights.

I agree with you that it's the only way forward. My experience is that people who dismiss any concern about alliances with the US right as you and other posters have done as 'hyperbole', 'your opinion', 'alarmist' etc etc don't actually know anything about the US right and can't actually defend them when push comes to shove.

Which is why they're so dangerous. People happy to ally with no idea who they're actually getting into bed with.

So explain how 'guaranteeing life from conception..' isn't fundamentally anti-women and misogynist then MalagaNights.

If you can't, then you can't really just dismiss it as 'my opinion' can you?

My experience is that people who dismiss any concern about alliances with the US right as you and other posters have done as 'hyperbole', 'your opinion', 'alarmist' etc etc don't actually know anything about the US right and can't actually defend them when push comes to shove.
Which is why they're so dangerous. People happy to ally with no idea who they're actually getting into bed with.

This

Facts @mirax that the US democracy is crumbling??? Well if the Jan 6th storming of the capital and the subsequent denial by the Republican party + recent Supreme Court decisions over abortion, voting rights, electoral vetos, guns & environmental rights + daily mass shootings don't count as facts to you, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I do hope you appreciate the irony of you railing against American imperislism while at the same time trying to tell an American you understand better what's going on in their own country then they do.

Your last statement implying American women haven't realized historically they need to fight for their rights just exposes, once again, your total ignorance of American history.

Thing is, I can completely see why PP and other women are sick to the back teeth of anything to do with the left and why it feels that allying with the right might actually get something done.

I honestly can. And it's undoubtably the left who are to blame for helping the building of the right, in the US, UK and across Europe.

These alliances wouldn't be happening if Labour had any sort of back bone, and we wouldn't be in the ridiculous position of trying to pretend that any sort of anti-abortion group could, somehow, in some kind of way, be an ally to women.

Maybe I haven't read the thread properly but I'm still not seeing any actual evidence of Kellie-Jay forming an alliance with the far right/Christian right/republicans/fundies/whatever...

Speaking to someone is not an alliance.

Attending an event is not an alliance.

Agreeing with someone is not an alliance.

Liking someone is not an alliance.

WoLF describe her as 'a friend', where she is a special advisory board member. They receive funding from ADF.

She's appeared on the YouTube channel of far-right French Canadian Gareipy.

She's in close contact with the Heritage Foundation. who funded at least one of her trips to the states (as Liz Truss has been.)

She's spoken at, so endorsed, events held by the Family Research Council.

She's also publicly supported Trump and Tommy Robinson.

If that's not building alliances with the right, I'm not sure what is.

And, again, I don't blame her for turning away from the left, I truly don't.

But she says herself that she has no interest in the larger political picture - she is a single-issue campaigner - although the groups that she's allying with are very much not only or even concerned with preserving women's separate sex spaces and the proper meaning of the word 'woman'.

The heritage foundation have never funded any of her trips. Please provide evidence

You provide evidence that they haven't.