JK and the Manx flag

[Morverner]

I'm a huge fan of Jo and I'm far along the GC Road. But can anyone explain what the hell is going on with her thirder Twitter comments and her use of the Manx flag. I'm Manx myself and I'm not entirely OK with it, not least because it's not helping the GC argument at all here.

Have obviously name changed for this thread.

I doubt very much these type of comments would have been made, or allowed to stand, if they had been made about the other Celtic / Gaelic parts of the British isles.

What a ridiculous thing to say. I was born in England and live in Wales. People from all over the world come to Wales and make jokes about how it rains here every day, sheep-shagging, imply that Welsh people are thick and untrustworthy, making fun of the Welsh language. And of course I also hear Welsh and Scottish and Irish people slagging off England, calling all English people toffs and arrogant and disrespectful and colonialist and all the rest. I don't see any outrage. The rivalry and the stereotypes are as they've always been.

Why should it be any different for the IOM? Why are they allowed to be super-sensitive and want to shut people down? It's not 'dreadful' or 'terribly rude' for someone to describe their experience of going to the IOM as 'like going back to the 1950s'. I'd say that of my experience of several places, including some bits of west, mid and north Wales, parts of New Zealand and Oz and some parts of the US.

I'm sick of the victim card being played in order to stitch up good women doing important stuff.

Abortion has only been legal UK-wide since 2019 anyway.

I thought it was only legal with permission from two doctors in the UK? Although my info might be out of date. It's self refer here.

@KatVonlabonk

Thank you and cute rabbit :)
Interesting fact of the day, the island has no foxes, snakes, deer, moles or squirrels. But yes, lots of rabbits and wild wallabies too.

OP by U.K. wide I was referring to NI (another place often maligned on here, though perhaps not as much as Scotland).
Does the no-snake thing not give further weight to the story of IOM being made from a piece of Ireland?

What a ridiculous thing to say. I was born in England and live in Wales. People from all over the world come to Wales and make jokes about how it rains here every day, sheep-shagging, imply that Welsh people are thick and untrustworthy, making fun of the Welsh language. And of course I also hear Welsh and Scottish and Irish people slagging off England, calling all English people toffs and arrogant and disrespectful and colonialist and all the rest. I don't see any outrage. The rivalry and the stereotypes are as they've always been.

But that is offensive, I'm not expecting exceptions for one small island, these types of stereotypes are awful, a bit of rivalry over borders is one thing, calling various nationalities untrustworthy and thick isn't in any way justifiable.
And I will add again, that no one is accusing JK of this, this attitude is coming from Mumsnet.

Does the no-snake thing not give further weight to the story of IOM being made from a piece of Ireland?

No, St Patrick visited here too and took them away with him 😂

The attitude is coming from a very small number of posters on Mumsnet...

also given that my opinion that going to IOM is like visiting the 50s (it really is!) caused gross offence, I think a certain amount of over sensitivity may be in play here

also given that my opinion that going to IOM is like visiting the 50s (it really is!)

I'll give you the steam trains and trams! But we have you know, the internet and other modern trappings too 😁

The poster who replied should have made clear they were referring to NI . The rest of UK is what you say and has been since 1967. It was a rather disingenuous response.

As for no outrage- there certainly would be outrage if comments about Welsh sheep shaggers, etc were made on here and such comments would be deleted.

Really, Lass? You think posters should spell out what the U.K. means? You referred to the abortion laws in the U.K. - if you'd been a woman living in NI you would not have done so without clarifying the situation in NI. But we are used to be an afterthought over here!

This is totally irrelevant but I had a set of Manx language CDs called Shkeelin Vannin. Quite like Irish but I could only understand parts.

Must admit I was relieved to see TRAs are not claiming the Manx flag is a neo nazi symbol. I shouldn't be giving them ideas I suppose!

I think you need to know the back story for that one too! It's implicit in the alphabet additions, but probably would need a tag to its origins to prevent people making the assumption that Bindel is the source of that piss take!

Straws, ...clutching, ...much ..?

Who? That could apply to almost any of the previous posts

What did it say? it's been deleted

I can't repeat it word for word, for obvious reasons. But it was understandable ire at a joke about mental health issues! I was cavilling, trying to explain where that specific reference started!

I'm actually really enjoying hearing about the IOM

Especially about the man bit, really interesting

@Morverner

We took the UN to task and won over it's claims that Manx Gaelic was a dead language. It is on the rise again, there are children brought up speaking it and we have a Manx language primary school . Sadly it's not widely spoken though.

I think the UCD folklore department (Celtic studies), made recordings of the last native speaker of Manx ca. 1949. Seemingly, conversations with Irish speakers were mutually intelligible.

The written Manx looks different to other Q Celtic languages. It was a Welsh cleric who translated the Book of Common Prayer into Manx. He used a Welsh orthography for a gaelic language. I wonder if basing written Manx on the Welsh was as useful as it could have been for a Q Celtic language. It would be interesting to hear from a Manx student (who maybe knows some Irish/gaelic to compare and contrast the usefulness of the orthographies.

You can hear some recordings of native Manx speakers in this link.
www.learnmanx.com/features/recording-the-manx-eamon-de-valeras-visit-to-the-isle-of-man-in-1947-484673/

In any case, a very happy Tynwald Day!

And I didn't know Judith Kerr was Matthew Kneale's mother. Both great writers.

I got a post deleted for saying ODFOD to the *** who came in here on the feminism board labelling women hysterical!

How did that ever become a Mumsnet acronym if it's against talk guidelines?

Those are the recordings I heard @Cailleach1 . I had books with transcripts also. The orthography looks easier than Irish/ Scots Gaelic at first. But I soon got lost with the tenses and found myself wishing it was in 'proper Irish ' 😆
Imagine : UCD actually did useful stuff back in the 1940s! Now it's Woke Central.

It was actually UNESCO, not the UN, my mistake.
But this is a pretty good article on the subject.
heritagetribune.eu/united-kingdom/dead-celtic-language-comes-back-to-life/

It would be nice if she cleared it up considering all the traction it’s getting on here 😂